Have the discount golf stores contributed anything to the game?

[jeffwarne]

Do any discount golf stores give away tees?

Most private golf shops are merely there as a convenience and a service for the members, with high costs and low margins on hard goods(unless you just whore yourself into being a soft goods logo merchandiser, and that's not really being a golf pro-might as well sell that in the locker room)


Of course they've got to get rid of their clubhouses, fitness rooms and locker rooms first...

[Pete Lavallee]

Can I blame auto correct for adding the f to of?

[Steve Lapper]

Do any discount golf stores give away tees?

That's the dirty little secret that those who make their purchases at the discounters forget.An on site golf shop is selling service and competency.
I can't tell you how many times I see very well heeled members playing clubs completely inappropriate for them they bought online or from a big box store.With that said though, some of the discounters are getting better at this, and there's no real guarantee some green grass pros will get it right either.
At some point, most smart clubs will do away with on site shops-especially those that sell hard goods.
Most private golf shops are merely there as a convenience and a service for the members, with high costs and low margins on hard goods(unless you just whore yourself into being a soft goods logo merchandiser, and that's not really being a golf pro-might as well sell that in the locker room)


Of course they've got to get rid of their clubhouses, fitness rooms and locker rooms first...

 I was practically waiting for you to chime in. The green grass hard good business has been slowly dying for at least a decade, save for scheduled manufacturer demo days.


  Today, the business model has morphed into stocking demo inventory along with a fitting cart(s) and building the customized solution for a member right there and then. Having a row of putters and a bag of wedges still sell, but hardly at the #'s necessary to sustain any independently owned shop. Soft goods and utility items such as gloves, balls, batteries and misc. are today's volume drivers.


  Much of the blame should deservedly fall on the club manufacturers. Their intra-year over-hyped product cycles and demands for quarterly results as publicly-traded companies have fueled and accelerating the shift from green grass to big box. A shorter description might just be avarice, but consumer behavior (adapted easily from other non-recreational products) has become the driving enabler of this.


  Shifts in these kinds of consumer activities reminds me of that ever important first day of Physics class edict: "Change is an inevitable constant" It's a law of physics (and business) that change always happens and ultimately prevails. Adapt or die.


 

[Ian Mackenzie]

Jeff Brauer says: "

At some point, most smart clubs will do away with on site shops-especially those that sell hard goods.Most private golf shops are merely there as a convenience and a service for the members, with high costs and low margins on hard goods(unless you just whore yourself into being a soft goods logo merchandiser, and that's not really being a golf pro-might as well sell that in the locker room)Of course they've got to get rid of their clubhouses, fitness rooms and locker rooms first..."



Jeff, my buddies in the biz have a different thesis entirely and it is one that I can personally relate to and runs counter to what you say above.


For men at least, the private club pro shop is where HE is now finding a diverse set of retail merchandise left in another era for the member to buy at dedicated retail stores that "we" all tend to not frequent anymore. Dress pants, denim, casual (non-golf) pants, athletic clothing, dress shoes, dress shirts, ties, compression shorts, T-shirts, workout shirts, glasses, coasters...in addition to: rain suits, midlayers, fleeces, vests...and of course: polos, shorts, golf pants, hats, supplies, etc.


The women's clothing biz has and always will be a lost cause at the golf pro shop for the most part according to my pals who run businesses that dominate the top 5 brands at private golf shops.


The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model. At our club it sure is working. The pro has a "Buyer's Club" with guaranteed 25% discounts and the prize money won in routine events always leads you back to "pro shop credits". Vendors do trunk shows and some who have winter or ski lines have club events for members to buy things.

My point: the pro shop aint just logo clothing anymore.

Plus, to counter the trend of the newer "Club Champion" custom club retailers that emerged 5-10 years ago, many pro shops bought a TrackMan and sell custom fitted clubs to its members through the shop.

[Bernie Bell]

"The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model."

Is this still the predominant model?

[Ian Mackenzie]

"The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model."

Is this still the predominant model?

I think it depends on who "owns the shop" - the pro or the club.


That's a line item in a comp package/contract from what I have heard.

[Garland Bayley]

Can I blame auto correct for adding the f to of?

Nope! Of is a perfectly good word that auto correct won't "correct".

        

[Paul Jones]

Would you rather see manufactures use the PXG model and only sell direct?  Our club can sell them, but you have to pay PXG directly - I think the club get incentivized some kind of way. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff Brauer says: "

At some point, most smart clubs will do away with on site shops-especially those that sell hard goods.Most private golf shops are merely there as a convenience and a service for the members, with high costs and low margins on hard goods(unless you just whore yourself into being a soft goods logo merchandiser, and that's not really being a golf pro-might as well sell that in the locker room)Of course they've got to get rid of their clubhouses, fitness rooms and locker rooms first..."



Jeff, my buddies in the biz have a different thesis entirely and it is one that I can personally relate to and runs counter to what you say above.


For men at least, the private club pro shop is where HE is now finding a diverse set of retail merchandise left in another era for the member to buy at dedicated retail stores that "we" all tend to not frequent anymore. Dress pants, denim, casual (non-golf) pants, athletic clothing, dress shoes, dress shirts, ties, compression shorts, T-shirts, workout shirts, glasses, coasters...in addition to: rain suits, midlayers, fleeces, vests...and of course: polos, shorts, golf pants, hats, supplies, etc.


The women's clothing biz has and always will be a lost cause at the golf pro shop for the most part according to my pals who run businesses that dominate the top 5 brands at private golf shops.


The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model. At our club it sure is working. The pro has a "Buyer's Club" with guaranteed 25% discounts and the prize money won in routine events always leads you back to "pro shop credits". Vendors do trunk shows and some who have winter or ski lines have club events for members to buy things.

My point: the pro shop aint just logo clothing anymore.

Plus, to counter the trend of the newer "Club Champion" custom club retailers that emerged 5-10 years ago, many pro shops bought a TrackMan and sell custom fitted clubs to its members through the shop.

Actually, Jeff Warne said that, just to keep the Jeff's straight.....


One more thought....hasn't Mike Young also complained about different mfgs contributing to pro's retirement funds, etc., to entice them to carry only their brands?  (From memory, apologize if I got that slightly wrong)  So, what's his argument?  We need to protect the on course pro shops, but not protect them too much?  What is just right and who gets to determine that?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff, my buddies in the biz have a different thesis entirely and it is one that I can personally relate to and runs counter to what you say above.


For men at least, the private club pro shop is where HE is now finding a diverse set of retail merchandise left in another era for the member to buy at dedicated retail stores that "we" all tend to not frequent anymore. Dress pants, denim, casual (non-golf) pants, athletic clothing, dress shoes, dress shirts, ties, compression shorts, T-shirts, workout shirts, glasses, coasters...in addition to: rain suits, midlayers, fleeces, vests...and of course: polos, shorts, golf pants, hats, supplies, etc.


The women's clothing biz has and always will be a lost cause at the golf pro shop for the most part according to my pals who run businesses that dominate the top 5 brands at private golf shops.


The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model. At our club it sure is working. The pro has a "Buyer's Club" with guaranteed 25% discounts and the prize money won in routine events always leads you back to "pro shop credits". Vendors do trunk shows and some who have winter or ski lines have club events for members to buy things.

My point: the pro shop aint just logo clothing anymore.

Plus, to counter the trend of the newer "Club Champion" custom club retailers that emerged 5-10 years ago, many pro shops bought a TrackMan and sell custom fitted clubs to its members through the shop.

lol-
I remember as a kid pulling the headlights up in the dark to continue practicing my putting denim, compression shorts, ties and casual(nongolf) pant displays.
On a good night I often fantasized about just the right skiwear placement...

[Mike_Young]

Actually, Jeff Warne said that, just to keep the Jeff's straight.....


One more thought....hasn't Mike Young also complained about different mfgs contributing to pro's retirement funds, etc., to entice them to carry only their brands?  (From memory, apologize if I got that slightly wrong)  So, what's his argument?  We need to protect the on course pro shops, but not protect them too much?  What is just right and who gets to determine that?

Jeff,I'm not complaining.  I'm putting something out there and asking the question.  I never mentioned pros or their shops.  My theory is that the retails sales going to a club, course, golf pro whatever help to keep said golf course entity in business. Yet retail sales going to large discount retail golf outlets go to stockholders or owner and that's it.  The same guy checking for the deal on Golf Now and buying from Big box and bitching about some course green fee is nothing but a race to the bottom...

[Jeff Shelman]

I think the national chains brought more fitting technology to the masses and that was a good development.


In theory, you have more people playing gear that fits them which leads to more good shots and hopefully more enjoyment.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Actually, Jeff Warne said that, just to keep the Jeff's straight.....


One more thought....hasn't Mike Young also complained about different mfgs contributing to pro's retirement funds, etc., to entice them to carry only their brands?  (From memory, apologize if I got that slightly wrong)  So, what's his argument?  We need to protect the on course pro shops, but not protect them too much?  What is just right and who gets to determine that?

Jeff,I'm not complaining.  I'm putting something out there and asking the question.  I never mentioned pros or their shops.  My theory is that the retails sales going to a club, course, golf pro whatever help to keep said golf course entity in business. Yet retail sales going to large discount retail golf outlets go to stockholders or owner and that's it.  The same guy checking for the deal on Golf Now and buying from Big box and bitching about some course green fee is nothing but a race to the bottom...

Mike,


Two things -


First, I get it, but if you are a right wing, free market capitalist, I don't get it.  As has been mentioned, everyone loves supporting the local shop in theory, but just not at higher prices.  And, I wonder if said courses would use those extra revenues to lower greens fees, or would they be just as greedy as the big boxes?  With so many run by corporate golf management companies, that really look after the bottom line, they are no different than any other business.  I agree it's a race to the pricing bottom, but that does enhance efficiencies and not everyone will be able to compete.  It is and always has been that way.


Second, while I'm not putting your post in this category, I really hate the, "I'm just putting it out there" defense.  My right-wing friends (and even Trump) will put outright lies, some directly from Neo-Nazi sites and the like, and then their defense for that behavior was, "I just put it out there for people to make up their own minds."  Just MHO.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Would you rather see manufactures use the PXG model and only sell direct?  Our club can sell them, but you have to pay PXG directly - I think the club get incentivized some kind of way.

ACtually, I just charged my new PXGs to the club. They come three or four times a year.

[Tommy Williamsen]

"The golf pro shop is a significant part of the head pro's compensation package and model."

Is this still the predominant model?

I think it depends on who "owns the shop" - the pro or the club.


That's a line item in a comp package/contract from what I have heard.

I don't know too many pros that own their own shop anymore.

[Pat Burke]

I’m honestly not sure where I fall here


Some, not all, of the green grass issues were brought on by themselves.  The club I used to work at did very little to help members get proper clubs, and even when we did demo days, there was little to no follow up to make certain that the clubs ordered were built properly and actually worked for the member.   And then compare that to the local “Big “ operations who will do a fitting AND give the customer a 30-90 day exchange ability, you simply have a better service to choose from.


My older brother, who I am proud to believe is a great club pro, does fittings as well as demo days.  But they also check the equipment when delivered and follow up to make certain the customer is happy with the club they have purchased. He does very well in his shop, and also holds his vendors accountable.  If the manufacturers help they stay, if they aren’t going to help out with a problem, they won’t be back in his shop.


But so many pros, are simply managing the golf operation for the company, the Lack of customer service from a true golf professional  Doesn’t exist and opens up more opportunity for the big national stores


It is getting done at some green grass shops, but too often it is not

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike - I am old enough to remember when there were next to zero off-course equipment options available. If a beginner wanted some equipment, and was not a member of a local club, they had to visit JCPenney or Sears or K-Mart, or something similar... and, purchase the cheapest set off the rack that Wilson, MacGregor or Ram offered. If you were left-handed (as you and I are), forget it! There was next to nothing available.


On course facilities had a virtual monopoly on the selling of golf equipment and merchandise to the vast majority of serious golfers. They had a captive marketplace. They gave up command of that marketplace by not being competitive or offering their wares to the public. Everything they suffered in the years that followed was their own fault. They expected members to continue purchasing from the in-house pro shop "Just Because." Bad decision.     

[Padraig Dooley]

When I walk into the big box stores, the first thing I always think is how big their overheads must be and how much inventory must be sold just to cover the overheads, never mind make a profit.
Then compare this to the local club's pro shop with far less overheads, a captive audience at their door and also in depth knowledge of the customer.
The local shop should really blow the big box shops out of the water, especially when it comes to service levels. But, what the big box guys know is that perceptions are most important and they know how to play on the perceptions. The one they play on most is price that bigger means cheaper prices. It's easy then to put up a singular offer to attract customers in, they see the cheap offer and think that everything is cheap then. There rarely is a significant price difference between retailers, but the perception is that there is.
The next perception is that more choice is better, more brands is better, more stock is better. But what choice does is cause confusion, The question becomes why do I choose A, B, C, D or E brand? This can become even more confusing when they basically all perform the same way and it's the model not the brand that makes the difference. Now, highly knowledgeable staff become very important to navigate the customer to the right choice. Who should have a better advantage here, the highly trained pro or the part time big box shop assistant?
I would prefer to see shops attached to courses rebrand themselves as 'Game Enjoyment Centres', where the goal is to get golfers to enjoy the golf more. You'll get a much better return if your goal is to help Ann to hole more putts to break 100, get Jim a driver that he hits 15 yards further and loses a couple of shots off his handicap, know that Scott's favourite team wears blue and there's a perfect new blue shirt for him, not selling George a new driver that's $50 cheaper and he's got a great deal.
I'd say that what the discount stores have really contributed is that there's lots of lessons to be learned from them.
 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike - I am old enough to remember when there were next to zero off-course equipment options available. If a beginner wanted some equipment, and was not a member of a local club, they had to visit JCPenney or Sears or K-Mart, or something similar... and, purchase the cheapest set off the rack that Wilson, MacGregor or Ram offered. If you were left-handed (as you and I are), forget it! There was next to nothing available.


On course facilities had a virtual monopoly on the selling of golf equipment and merchandise to the vast majority of serious golfers. They had a captive marketplace. They gave up command of that marketplace by not being competitive or offering their wares to the public. Everything they suffered in the years that followed was their own fault. They expected members to continue purchasing from the in-house pro shop "Just Because." Bad decision.   

I am so old, but not so old to remember that for one of my first rounds of golf, I stopped at a Walgreens (no Walmarts back then) for a sleeve of their in house brand.....the PODO!  I also remember a ball striking the front hood of the car as we approached the golf course, and having Dad stop the car so I could get out and retrieve it....and then I used that one when I had lost all my PODO's.

[A.G._Crockett]

Three thoughts:

1. The term "discount stores" just isn't accurate at all.  Perhaps "big box", as amorphous as that is, would be better.  Golfers shopping for true discounts are buying online or buying used stuff, or buying last year's models when the new stuff comes out; they're not buying new stuff in brick and mortar stores.  People that are shopping in the big box brick and mortar stores are looking for a completely different set of options, and saving 10% really isn't part of the equation, even IF there is 10% to be saved.

2. TRADE INS!!! When a customer buys a new club(s) at Golf Galaxy or the PGA Superstore or the like, the store provides a ready-made vehicle for disposing of the customer's old clubs, even if only for a few dollars.  Green grass pro shops, with few exceptions, don't provide that service, and that's a big deal. 


3. There was a period of many decades in which MacGregor and Wilson were the summit of the golf equipment world.  Whether because those two companies believed it would always be thus (aka arrogance), or because their corporate structure wasn't very nimble, they couldn't or didn't change when the world did, and the golf world passed them by.  Green grass shops that have changed with the times, that have fitting carts for multiple companies, that provide quality club fitting and then roll the price of the fitting into the purchase price of the clubs, STILL have a viable place in the golf equipment market.  But the shops that believed that the members or the general public would have undying loyalty despite more and better options are now history.  That's just the way economic decisions by consumers work. 

[Daryl David]

2. TRADE INS!!! When a customer buys a new club(s) at Golf Galaxy or the PGA Superstore or the like, the store provides a ready-made vehicle for disposing of the customer's old clubs, even if only for a few dollars.  Green grass pro shops, with few exceptions, don't provide that service, and that's a big deal.

Not sure about other areas, but most of the “green grass” pro shops where I live have a mobile trade in unit that comes 3 or 4 times a season. They set up near the range just like a demo day and accept used clubs for trade in. The value is then put on your club account. Very easy process and the guy in the tent gives you the PGA website value price that becomes a credit at your club. I assume they get a small percentage from the club. The trade in program results in a lot of sales in the pro shop that would normally go to the local big box.

[A.G._Crockett]

2. TRADE INS!!! When a customer buys a new club(s) at Golf Galaxy or the PGA Superstore or the like, the store provides a ready-made vehicle for disposing of the customer's old clubs, even if only for a few dollars.  Green grass pro shops, with few exceptions, don't provide that service, and that's a big deal.

Not sure about other areas, but most of the “green grass” pro shops where I live have a mobile trade in unit that comes 3 or 4 times a season. They set up near the range just like a demo day and accept used clubs for trade in. The value is then put on your club account. Very easy process and the guy in the tent gives you the PGA website value price that becomes a credit at your club. I assume they get a small percentage from the club. The trade in program results in a lot of sales in the pro shop that would normally go to the local big box.

Daryl,

That's a great program, and the first time I've heard of it.  That's a good example of nimble management, too.

[James Brown]

Golf Galaxy and it’s like has definitely contributed to golf. 


Where else are you going to be able to shop 30 different iron set and 100 wedges and 100 putters and 20 drivers and 50 golf shoes?  Is there a pro shop anywhere in the world with a selection that rivals even the most poorly stocked Golf Galaxy? 


This thread sounds like a cab driver complaining about Uber.

[V. Kmetz]

....

This thread sounds like a cab driver complaining about Uber.

I would amend this to say cab company...complaining about Uber.


Let's leave the drivers out of this; neither a cab or an Uber driver is exactly hitting a homerun.

[Thomas Dai]

Can’t comment in relation to other areas of the World but in the U.K. the internet, eBay and companies specialising in secondhand and trade-in clubs seem to have changed the world of the discount golf stores. Mind, changed things for the traditional pro-shops too.
And equipment changes haven’t helped. That wooden headed driver that you bought either new or secondhand 20 yrs ago and your club pro refurbished a few times in the interim years has now been replaced by a metal headed object the latest version of which is introduced every few months. Irons, putters, wedges too. Clubs are near consumables these days. And shoes seem to have inbuilt obsolescence these days while the water proof jacket is now a fashion item.
Atb