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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2021, 08:25:30 AM »
James


I think the mistake often made on here is thinking of UK clubs in terms of being a commercial enterprise and that all income comes without a cost. The argument goes that the club wouldn't be getting the full visitor fee anyway so why not take a fraction of that by way of a guest fee ? Well I'm not sure that is actually correct. I suspect the best person to comment on her, Adrian Stiff, might disagree with it as well. I also don't agree with the bit that it doesn't come without a cost. Ignoring the extra wear and tear on the course there is the point that it undermines the membership of the club. Why bother with becoming a member when all I need is an app ?


Niall

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2021, 08:31:42 AM »
Or, why remain a member of a course that suddenly has a full tee sheet consisting of mostly non-members? It stinks up the experience on every square inch of the course.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2021, 08:37:59 AM »
James


I think the mistake often made on here is thinking of UK clubs in terms of being a commercial enterprise and that all income comes without a cost. The argument goes that the club wouldn't be getting the full visitor fee anyway so why not take a fraction of that by way of a guest fee ? Well I'm not sure that is actually correct. I suspect the best person to comment on her, Adrian Stiff, might disagree with it as well. I also don't agree with the bit that it doesn't come without a cost. Ignoring the extra wear and tear on the course there is the point that it undermines the membership of the club. Why bother with becoming a member when all I need is an app ?


Niall

Well....not to ignore your woulda coulda shoulda objections and getting back to reality...ya have to have an app and be a member of a top club. Again, clubs can cross your imaginary bridges when they find them 😉. Relax dude.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2021, 08:53:23 AM »
A dose of reality. GCA had an outing at Prairie Dunes just before Covid. It was scheduled the day of the senior club championship. Even worse it was scheduled so you guys teed off before the tournament. I don't think that it should come as a surprise that I didn't see value in playing in a tournament that I had for years before or as I later decided, remaining a member at all. Lucky for me, the first year that I didn't mail in my dues check was January 2020. Membership is not a thinking mans game.


Everyday little things happen that either increase or decrease the value of being a member of a club. These apps and other social media are chipping away at that value.


James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2021, 08:53:44 AM »
Niall/John

[size=78%]My point is that if too many visitors is a problem at a particular club, whether because of wear and tear or busy tee sheets, then limit the number of guest fees per member or reduce the discount.  For some clubs though, the problem is not enough visitors and encouraging members to bring more guests is one way of addressing that.[/size]


[size=78%]Of course, there are others - spend more money on advertising; sign up to something like the Mashie club; accept more visiting parties; offer cheap deals on GolfNow - but all have their downsides.  There are top 100 clubs doing all of those things.  Are any of them better than encouraging members to bring more guests, even some they don’t know?  That’s for each club to decide as far as I’m concerned.[/size]

[size=78%]Personally, if I were in a position to be a member of this WhatsApp group and was thinking of introducing more than 5 or 6 guests a year, I’d check with my club to see what they thought about it and happily accept whatever position they decided to take.[/size]

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2021, 09:01:26 AM »
Who do you want to smile when they see you pull into the parking lot? Your fellow members or management? Club membership is enough like middle school without having to deal with the teachers pet.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I New
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2021, 09:05:24 AM »
A dose of reality. GCA had an outing at Prairie Dunes just before Covid. It was scheduled the day of the senior club championship. Even worse it was scheduled so you guys teed off before the tournament. I don't think that it should come as a surprise that I didn't see value in playing in a tournament that I had for years before or as I later decided, remaining a member at all. Lucky for me, the first year that I didn't mail in my dues check was January 2020. Membership is not a thinking mans game.

Everyday little things happen that either increase or decrease the value of being a member of a club. These apps and other social media are chipping away at that value.


You may be right, but you may be wrong. IMO you are thinking too black and white on the issue. Not everybody has the same outlook on life as you do.


Ciao
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 04:21:09 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2021, 09:25:03 AM »




You may be right, but you may be wrong. IMO you are thinking too black and white on the issuse. Not everybody has the same outlook on life as you do.


Ciao


I think everyone wants to be happy, it's just few people have the courage to admit why they are not.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2021, 09:40:52 AM »
James


I think the mistake often made on here is thinking of UK clubs in terms of being a commercial enterprise and that all income comes without a cost. The argument goes that the club wouldn't be getting the full visitor fee anyway so why not take a fraction of that by way of a guest fee ? Well I'm not sure that is actually correct. I suspect the best person to comment on her, Adrian Stiff, might disagree with it as well. I also don't agree with the bit that it doesn't come without a cost. Ignoring the extra wear and tear on the course there is the point that it undermines the membership of the club. Why bother with becoming a member when all I need is an app ?


Niall
Of course you are right in that all clubs are run differently and some clubs are just happy to balance the books each year, some don't think of the other costs. Provided you have a rainy day fund (Covid) and put money aside for expensive things like Irrigation Systems which at say £300,000 and a 20 year life means £15,000 should go into a side-pot...its then fine to consider everything in the best interest of THE MEMBERS and if bringing guests for a peppercorn is desired then fine.


Commercially I break it down that say it costs £750,000 to run the golf course and with 25,000 rounds of golf it means your PPR bats out at £30 per game gets you back level.....as well all know if you sell anything for less than you buy you will go bankrupt.


The other side of 'being sensible' is not to undermine your membership pricing, the best golf courses trade at a high green fee price to membership costs, the very best UK clubs are still only say £1500 per year yet the green fee might be £200 for a single round, so they trade at a ratio of less than 10. This creates desire to want to belong.


If your membership is £900 per year and the club touts its charms at £15 on GolfNow or any ponce site then it does not create that desire to belong, trading at 60 times ratio is crazy, members will jump ship and pay as they go. Most members play 20-30 times. Clubs that trade their membership at 30 times higher the standard summer green fee are likely to go bust. 20 times is the preferred level with the lower the better.


And so guests fees come somewhere in the middle. That is up to the club if it sees £25 as worth having when it displays rack rate at £65 then something is not quite right, if it see's that bringing guests at a very low price 30% of rack rate as a members perk, then I think that is right. Silloth is a difficult one, we know the course is great, it just has one of the worst locations in England. In my opinion Silloth should have bought The Golf Hotel, it would pack out a 20 twin bedroomed hotel and pocket say £299 for a 2 night 3 round deal, it would probably nett twice what the club takes now. 


If someone is already a member of a club then 'county card price' is there for everyone. What you need to eradicate is someone poncing into 1000greens or Duncan's group that is a non member, though it would seem if he is not a member he can't reciprocate so this should in theory be catered for at the moment, down the line he might not rejoin that top100 club but still retain his affiliation.


Like others are saying, this whole thing is not black and white. It just should not morph into a cheap avenue for golf so the clubs get robbed. Clubs need to keep the desire to play and you kinda do that by keeping the price up a bit and taking the view that an unused tee time is lost money so grab what you can smashes the integrity.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reciprocal Members Guest Rates WhatsApp Group - GB&I
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2021, 11:36:26 AM »
I tend to agree with Scott although perhaps wouldn't say it so strongly.


To be fair, I get this review quite a bit.
You are one of the few people that make me admire my own restraint.


I also agree with you, btw.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

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