[Tom_Doak]

11 Lancaster CC  294 yds
14 Leatherstocking GC 285 yds
17 Morris County Club  290 yds

Which Lancaster is that?  I don't remember the one in PA having a hole on the back nine that short.

[Jonathan Cummings]

11 Lancaster CC  294 yds
14 Leatherstocking GC 285 yds
17 Morris County Club  290 yds

Which Lancaster is that?  I don't remember the one in PA having a hole on the back nine that short.

Scratchin my head over this as well.  11 is around that short from the Ladies....  Nothing is that short from the men's tees.

[Jim Sherma]

Rolling Road - Catonsville, MD - Willie Park Jr


#5 271yds
#9 284yds


Both good par 4's with lots of interest.

[Paul Stephenson]

#7 at Scarboro is 276
#9 at Rosedale is 265


If you're allowing wiggle room:


 #16 at Cutten Fields is 312...but it does have Stanley Thompson's Dormie House just to the left of the green.

[Tim Martin]

11 Lancaster CC  294 yds
14 Leatherstocking GC 285 yds
17 Morris County Club  290 yds

Which Lancaster is that?  I don't remember the one in PA having a hole on the back nine that short.

Scratchin my head over this as well.  11 is around that short from the Ladies....  Nothing is that short from the men's tees.

Western New York-Sorry I didn’t clarify.

[Jonathan Cummings]

18 North Berwick


Ira

I thought of that one but I also thought it is a very average hole....almost the worst if not one of the worst at NB.
GREAT I suppose will have different meanings.


The more I think about this the more I think they are very rare as the don't really exist on the better golf courses. Holes like the 3rd and 4th at Painswick, probs even 16 are GREAT holes for me. All are great lookers. 1st at Thurlestone perhaps. There are NONE on any of the Open Rota's. Sunningdale has the 9th but again it is pretty poor.

Sorry for a little bit of a thread snatch but the final hole at NB is a great example of "most anti-climatic 18th."  As is the 18th at Preswick.  Both holes anti-great holes only partly because of their shortness.

[Sean_A]

NB's 18 is one of my top half favourite holes and one of my favourite finishers because anything can happen. A hole in one or an X are possibilities for a decent range of players. Quite unusual for a par 4 finisher.

Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Opinions of Jonathan and Sean on 18th at NB are a great example of why GCA is so subjective and there are few right answers.  Two very well traveled knowledgeable opinions yet polar opposite     


I happen to really enjoy the 18th at NB for similar reasons to Sean.  First time I played it, we parked our rental car in a spot right next to the 18th green.  I said to my playing partners, "I am not sure we should park here.  Some wild golfer is going to hit us".  When we got to that hole, we had a 25 mph wind blowing off the water and all I could see was our rental car right next to the green.  I couldn't aim far enough to the left as I thought for sure I was going to be that wild golfer who hit our car.  I landed right in front of it and barely managed to stay in bounds     It is a fun finishing hole as a lot can happen. 

[Jonathan Cummings]

Opinions of Jonathan and Sean on 18th at NB are a great example of why GCA is so subjective and there are few right answers.  Two very well traveled knowledgeable opinions yet polar opposite     


I happen to really enjoy the 18th at NB for similar reasons to Sean.  First time I played it, we parked our rental car in a spot right next to the 18th green.  I said to my playing partners, "I am not sure we should park here.  Some wild golfer is going to hit us".  When we got to that hole, we had a 25 mph wind blowing off the water and all I could see was our rental car right next to the green.  I couldn't aim far enough to the left as I thought for sure I was going to be that wild golfer who hit our car.  I landed right in front of it and barely managed to stay in bounds     It is a fun finishing hole as a lot can happen.

Tell me one person who tees it up at NB and says, "I can't wait to get to that 18th",  Geez.

[Mark_Fine]

Jonathan,
Isn't it a bit like 18 at The Old Course?  Do you not like that hole? 

[Mike_Clayton]

1 at Victoria (Australia)


At least when I played it


A very easy first hole which almost put more Pressure on  the start of the round.


I always felt like I HAD to make three getting started.

It's a much different hole now. The one you played (not the original) you had to hit it high and straight and not think too much about where you missed it.
The new one is a distinctly left to right green - draw is likely too miss in the back left bunker - and you have to make sure you don't miss on the same side as the pin.
And it's well under 300 yards - 260, which is a 4 iron for the long guys when it's a touch down wind

[Sean_A]

Opinions of Jonathan and Sean on 18th at NB are a great example of why GCA is so subjective and there are few right answers.  Two very well traveled knowledgeable opinions yet polar opposite     


I happen to really enjoy the 18th at NB for similar reasons to Sean.  First time I played it, we parked our rental car in a spot right next to the 18th green.  I said to my playing partners, "I am not sure we should park here.  Some wild golfer is going to hit us".  When we got to that hole, we had a 25 mph wind blowing off the water and all I could see was our rental car right next to the green.  I couldn't aim far enough to the left as I thought for sure I was going to be that wild golfer who hit our car.  I landed right in front of it and barely managed to stay in bounds     It is a fun finishing hole as a lot can happen.

Tell me one person who tees it up at NB and says, "I can't wait to get to that 18th",  Geez.

There is a ton of room between "I can't wait.." and liking a hole. There is some terrific terrain and OOB hard right with a possibility of a hole in one. The hole ticks a lot of my boxes.

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Lancaster Country Club in NY has a decent short four in the 11th, but the nearby third is a much better hole, in my opinion. Neither one is worthy of being included in a top 18 of short fours.

https://www.lccny.com/golf/the-course

If I were to consider short fours in western New York, I'd be saddened by the fact that I could not include the fifth (306) nor the tenth (326) at Country Club of Buffalo. Moving them up six and twenty-six yards, respectively, would do nothing to help your score. Both are spectacular short fours, and neither goes into the quarries, although the fifth does skirt the bigger one.

The shortest four at Crag Burn is the third, which tips at 342. Move it to 300 yards and it's still beguiling. Crag Burn and CCB do battle all the time for best club in Buffalo-Niagara.

The two, annual amateur tournaments in the area are held at East Aurora and Niagara Falls country clubs. The International Junior Masters has a 329 yard fifth at the former course, while the Porter Cup has a 342 yard fifteenth at the later course. In the case of the fifteenth, however, the ams aim straight at the green, which takes the angle (and some of the yardage) out of the equation. No help here.

Park Club in Williamsville has no candidates, but its former second course, the Orchard Park Country Club, has a 283-yard fourth. Like the other shorts mentioned above, it's a nice break, but in no way is it worthy of consideration. The fourteenth at OPCC is 313 and much cooler, but overly treed and almost unplayable.

The 15th at Transit Valley (in East Amherst) tips at 308. Sooo close and a pretty good hole. Not top 18, though. The fourth at Springville Country Club to the south tips at 308, but has a fantastic green that flows from front to back. Yup, from front to back. Great cross bunkers, great strategy. Many clubs as options off the tee.

Top three with a bit of withering, in no particular order are the two at CCB and the one at Springville.

The public courses aren't much better. Here are the few ~

#14 at Arrowhead (Akron, NY) @ 300 yards
#4 & #5 at Concord Crest (Concord, NY) @ 298 and 261, respectively


I think that the dearth of short par fours is a terrible thing. Growing up at Grover Cleveland as I did, the presence of about six drivable fours (5, 10, 14, 15, 16, 18) on a 5600-yard course taught us to reach back and kill it. These were holes born of the original layout, the site of the 1912 USGA Open championship.

I should have played there longer, instead of graduating to Audubon, a boring municipal course near SUNY-Buffalo's new campus.

[jeffwarne]

How many listed so far are Par 3's?

[Garland Bayley]

Perranporth 8
Perranporth 13
Perranporth 18

Whoops! Came across this thread to late. I see Dai had these in mind all along.

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