Course with the shortest green to next tee transitions?

[Jeff Schley]

I'm sure there is data out there, from the edge of a green complex to the middle of the member tee box for the 17 transitions.

• Any guesstimates of how many feet that would be?
• Now anyone actually have any data?
• As an aside how about a top 100 caliber course?

We all love a great walk that isn't too laborious with mild undulations. A short walk from green to tee is central to that enjoyment.

[JESII]

No idea of the actual answer but for a modern course, Applebrook, outside Philadelphia, has to be a contender.

[Kalen Braley]

Of the courses I've played, Indian Canyon is the first course that comes to mind.  Its built on the side of the hill but the green to tee transitions are fairly short in general.

I'm guessing it still adds up to a few hundred yards, (9 green to 10 tee is nearly 100, but I would think that's not unusual even for a nearly 100 year old layout.)

[Ian Galbraith]

I too enjoy a compact course green to tee. Just did a quick measure of North Berwick on google maps and it totals about 630 yards for the 17 transitions - an average of 37 yards. Most are closer to 20 yards but a few longer ones (3-4, 9-10 and 12-13, 14-15) bump up the total.


I suspect somewhere like Elie might be a contender in this game. 

[Adam Lawrence]

Gotta be the Old Course really, if played from the original tees -- which are literally a step off the previous green.

[Rick Lane]

Just measured Brooklawn in Ct with Google earth.  1911 layout with some of the shortest green to tee walks I’ve played.  Got 2781 feet, or 927 yards, avg 54 yards per hole.  Surprised me, as I would have bet avg 35 yards.

[PCCraig]

When I played Pinehurst #4 last month I mentioned that I enjoyed the short green to tee walks around the course, to which my member playing partners replied how much they didn't enjoy it. Apparently they didn't like hearing people on the green behind them talking/yelling/etc. while they tee off.


Oh well. Different strokes...

[Ira Fishman]

Brora must be a contender.


Ira

[Kalen Braley]

I'm surprised as well.  Just measured Indian Canyon and while it has 4 transitions of 30 yards or less, it also has 3 over 100, and 3 others between 70 and 90 yards.

Total Yardage - 1044, Avg - 61

[Kalen Braley]

On the opposite side of the spectrum I measured a local course here that is literally built into the side of a mountain.  It has its own category of CartBall... Mountain Ball.

I wonder if this can be beat:
Yardage just from Greens to Tees - 4453
Number under 100 yards - 0
Number over 400 yards - 3 (Not including 1 other at 390)
Number over 600 yards - 1 (9 to 10)
Average transition - 261 yards

[C. Sturges]

Kalen,


Is that the Lake course at Mountain Dell?   It popped in my mind as one of the worst.


chris

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Is that the Lake course at Mountain Dell?   It popped in my mind as one of the worst.
chris

That one has a few long transitions, but most aren't too bad.

The one I gave numbers for is South Mountain in Draper. It has some fun holes, and a number of interesting shots, but complete and utter Cart Ball for sure!


P.S.  I did Sanctuary for comparison, but that was "only" 2300 yards.

[Edward Glidewell]

I just did a rough measurement of Sedgefield. If I'd measured to the back tees the distances would be shorter because on most holes there you're actually walking past the tips to get to the regular tees (as opposed to courses where you have to walk backwards to get to them), but I came up with 371 yards in total for the front 9, 432 yards total for the back 9, and about 110 yards to transition from the 9th green to the 10th tee for an average of roughly 53 yards per hole when playing from the regular men's tees.


It certainly doesn't feel like that much when you're playing there, but an average of 53 yards per hole (somewhat skewed by the 9 to 10 transition) is probably quite short in the overall golf world. I think measuring to the back tees would probably be closer to a 45 yard average.


I'm honestly not sure how much closer you'd actually want them with current equipment and remembering that most golfers aren't low handicappers. There's one par 3 at Sedgefield where it's not difficult to pull your tee shot and hit it on the next hole's tee.

[Thomas Dai]

Do private courses count? I recall a video showing Mike Nuzzo teeing-up immediately adjacent to the previous greens at Wolf Point.
Wasn’t MacKenzie famous for advocating close green to next tee transitions? The course of his that comes to mind first when pondering the idea is Walsall. I’m sure there are many others. Yee olde day smaller size sites with no room to expand help I guess.
Atb

[Brian Finn]

My home course, a restored/renovated Ross currently has ~1,070 yards total of the 17 green to tee walks (63 yards average), including 3 of above 100 yards each (110, 145, 175).  I found it interesting that the original routing (different clubhouse location, different order, 2 holes that were replaced) came in over 300 yards shorter, for a 45 yard average, with only 2 above 100 (110, 120).  In between is the original hole order, with the 2 new holes included, and that comes in just under 900 yards, or 53 yard average. 

I believe Mid Pines comes in at just over 600 yards total, with an average of 36-38 yards per hole.  Among courses in the US, I can't imagine too many would get much lower than this, but I'd be interested to hear.

[Adam Lawrence]

Do private courses count? I recall a video showing Mike Nuzzo teeing-up immediately adjacent to the previous greens at Wolf Point.

Wolf Point doesn’t have formal teeing grounds; the local rule is that the winner of a hole chooses where to start the next hole. It has lots of small, flat areas that can serve as teeing grounds. Most are indeed very close to the preceding green.

[JESII]

599 yards for Applebrook based on Google Earth...pretty good. 35 per transition.

[Peter Flory]

I don't have time to measure, but I'm curious what Balcomie would be.  I've never had so many balls land near me curing a round of golf as that one- but it was very windy, so maybe the spray patters were just enlarged. 

[D_Malley]

wasn't one of the early golf rules that you had to tee off within one club length of the previous hole?


Merion west seems to have really short distances, except for a couple holes
IDK how to measure it

[Tim Gavrich]

Secession is probably the most efficient green-to-tee course I've ever played, probably followed by Pine Needles.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Gotta be the Old Course really, if played from the original tees -- which are literally a step off the previous green.

Has to be

[Kalen Braley]

Gotta be the Old Course really, if played from the original tees -- which are literally a step off the previous green.

Has to be

I'd be willing to map it, but I don't know which tees are the member tees or otherwise.  But I do know some holes on TOC have some fairly lengthy walk backs to accommodate top notch tournaments..

[Adam Lawrence]

Gotta be the Old Course really, if played from the original tees -- which are literally a step off the previous green.

Has to be

I'd be willing to map it, but I don't know which tees are the member tees or otherwise.  But I do know some holes on TOC have some fairly lengthy walk backs to accommodate top notch tournaments..

Hence 'the original tees'.

[Pete_Pittock]

Columbia Edgewater in Portland might be close, but they increased the walk with the revision of the par 5 3rd hole.

[archie_struthers]

 


Merion West?  Not sure but you almost fall onto the next tee.