Course with the shortest green to next tee transitions?

[Forrest Richardson]

Easy answer: The course with the highest insurance premium.

[J_ Crisham]

In the Chicagoland area Old Elm is probably the easiest green to tee walk. In fact several of the tee boxes are in the fringe transitions of the greens. Ideally suited for the demographics of the membership.

[Tim Martin]

Wannamoisett comes to mind for me. Ross only had 100 acres to work with.

[Bruce Bearer]

Valley Club is very compact, with many of the tees tied into the previous green complex, especially considering you have to cross Sheffield Drive twice (from 2 green to 3 tee and from 12 green to 13 tee).

I did a quick survey and came up with the following.  Keep in mind that these measurements can fluctuate based on what part of the green edge you measure from and where the tee markers are positioned on any given day, but the following represents pretty accurate average distances to the member tees:

1 Green > 2 Tee:  32 Yards
2 Green > 3 Tee:  143 Yards
3 Green > 4 Tee:  27 Yards
4 Green > 5 Tee:  29 Yards
5 Green > 6 Tee:  33 Yards
6 Green > 7 Tee:  17 Yards
7 Green > 8 Tee:  32 Yards
8 Green > 9 Tee:  21 Yards
9 Green > 10 Tee:  19 Yards
10 Green > 11 Tee:  18 Yards
11 Green > 12 Tee:  40 Yards
12 Green > 13 Tee:  84 Yards
13 Green > 14 Tee:  10 Yards
14 Green > 15 Tee:  78 Yards
15 Green > 16 Tee:  7 Yards
16 Green > 17 Tee:  11 Yards
17 Green > 18 Tee:  10 Yards

TOTAL:  611 Yards
AVERAGE:  35.9 Yards

Riviera is compact as well from green to tee.


I came up with a total of 636 yards; 37 yard average. 

[Jonathan Cummings]

Wannamoisett comes to mind for me. Ross only had 100 acres to work with.

Agree - that's the one that first came to my mind.  A modern one to consider is Stranz' Caledonia.  I believe that's built on less than 100 acres and about as tightly packed as a course can be.

[Phil Burr]

I am so envious of all GCAers whose Google Earth talents allow them to measure courses hole-by-hole.  I'm not looking to beat the lowest yet reported, but I'd love to be able to calculate the distance for certain courses that are close to my heart.  Courses built on small acreage such as Wannamoisett & Caledonia certainly spring to mind.  Others I'd like to measure include Merion & Taconic.


How about Pebble as played in fourth round of this year's AT&T?  Historically short transitions such as from 6-7, 7-8, 17-18, plus 4th round's new take on 9-10.  Longest transitions I can think of at PB are crossing the road 2-3, 9-10 (to the back tee at 10), 12-13 and 16-17.  I'd be interested in a tech wizard's measurements.

[Kalen Braley]

I am so envious of all GCAers whose Google Earth talents allow them to measure courses hole-by-hole.  I'm not looking to beat the lowest yet reported, but I'd love to be able to calculate the distance for certain courses that are close to my heart.  Courses built on small acreage such as Wannamoisett & Caledonia certainly spring to mind.  Others I'd like to measure include Merion & Taconic.


How about Pebble as played in fourth round of this year's AT&T?  Historically short transitions such as from 6-7, 7-8, 17-18, plus 4th round's new take on 9-10.  Longest transitions I can think of at PB are crossing the road 2-3, 9-10 (to the back tee at 10), 12-13 and 16-17.  I'd be interested in a tech wizard's measurements.

Phil,

I can certainly do this for Pebble, but I suspect some of those transitions may be longer than you think, especially when doing the measurement from green to the middle tee as opposed to the back tee. 

I'm gonna take a balllpark swag on Pebble right now and guess its at least 1500 yards, but I'll measure later today.

Kalen

[Phil Burr]

Thanks Kalen,


I'll be interested to see what you come up with.  And you're right in that there are several tees where one walks forward from green to next tee, passing the back tees in the process.


Phil

[Tim Martin]

I am so envious of all GCAers whose Google Earth talents allow them to measure courses hole-by-hole.  I'm not looking to beat the lowest yet reported, but I'd love to be able to calculate the distance for certain courses that are close to my heart.  Courses built on small acreage such as Wannamoisett & Caledonia certainly spring to mind.  Others I'd like to measure include Merion & Taconic.


How about Pebble as played in fourth round of this year's AT&T?  Historically short transitions such as from 6-7, 7-8, 17-18, plus 4th round's new take on 9-10.  Longest transitions I can think of at PB are crossing the road 2-3, 9-10 (to the back tee at 10), 12-13 and 16-17.  I'd be interested in a tech wizard's measurements.

Phil-Taconic on only 110 acres is pretty solid with the exception of 1 green to 2 tee(40 yards up the hill and past 17 tee) and 9 green to 10 tee which requires a pretty good walk up the stairs behind the green and around. The inward hole walks are pretty close.

[Phil Burr]

Tim, as you consistently respond first to my posts that reference Taconic, I have to inquire as to your connection to the course/area.  I would love to be your host for a GCA round at Taconic in 2022; as former golf team captain and friendly with the pro/coach I think we could procure favorable terms.  You mentioned the transition from 1-2 which is indeed longer than average along with 9-10.  Both legit.  I’d add 16-17 to the list yet remain interested as to what GCA cartographers will calculate.

[Tim Martin]

Tim, as you consistently respond first to my posts that reference Taconic, I have to inquire as to your connection to the course/area.  I would love to be your host for a GCA round at Taconic in 2022; as former golf team captain and friendly with the pro/coach I think we could procure favorable terms.  You mentioned the transition from 1-2 which is indeed longer than average along with 9-10.  Both legit.  I’d add 16-17 to the list yet remain interested as to what GCA cartographers will calculate.

Phil-I live in the Hartford, Connecticut area and have been lucky to play pre and post Hanse restoration. Two October plays in 2020 were highlights and reminded me how compelling the holes are after missing the last few years. I’ll look forward to playing in 2022 and thank you for the gracious invitation. It’s clear your not a status seeker.

[Kalen Braley]

Phil,

Here is what I measured at Pebble.  Just over 1100 yards from green edge to the center of the most oft used tee box, where the white or gold markers would presumably be. A lot of short transitions, with some very long ones too, where the average of 65 per transition doesn't reflect any of them...

Holes         Yards
1 to 2     53
2 to 3     55
3 to 4     80
4 to 5     107
5 to 6     170
6 to 7     31
7 to 8     42
8 to 9     32
9 to 10     105
10 to 11    76
11 to 12    23
12 to 13    41
13 to 14    58
14 to 15    32
15 to 16    38
16 to 17    130
17 to 18    31

[Phil Burr]

Kalen, do you have experience calling in military airstrikes or otherwise operating airborne equipment?  This is truly admirable work.


Back to Pebble, the 10-11 distance is most surprising to me.  As for 16-17 being the greatest, perhaps every one of the 8 times I've played Pebble the 17th hole begins when I set foot on the US Open tee, even if I have to walk another 40 yards to the tee from which I'm obligated to play.

[Sean_A]

I think small properties can lead to some of the unusually long and awkward transitions. I would think property shape and type is often not conducive for very smooth 18 hole transitions. It should really be 19 because the house being intimate with the course is desirable. This is part of what I was getting at with par constriction. Because we are obsessed with 18 holes the par overwhelmingly falls somewhere between 68 and 73. If courses were really well designed to match a site the par range would vary more dramatically and often.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, do you have experience calling in military airstrikes or otherwise operating airborne equipment?  This is truly admirable work.


Back to Pebble, the 10-11 distance is most surprising to me.  As for 16-17 being the greatest, perhaps every one of the 8 times I've played Pebble the 17th hole begins when I set foot on the US Open tee, even if I have to walk another 40 yards to the tee from which I'm obligated to play.

Google Earth is pretty straight forward for measuring distances like this.  I should post a tutorial sometime.

P.S.  5 to 6 is the longest transition at 170 yards, but not surprising given the original 5th hole and corridor is NLE

[Jeff Schley]

Kalen, do you have experience calling in military airstrikes or otherwise operating airborne equipment?  This is truly admirable work.


Back to Pebble, the 10-11 distance is most surprising to me.  As for 16-17 being the greatest, perhaps every one of the 8 times I've played Pebble the 17th hole begins when I set foot on the US Open tee, even if I have to walk another 40 yards to the tee from which I'm obligated to play.

Google Earth is pretty straight forward for measuring distances like this.  I should post a tutorial sometime.

P.S.  5 to 6 is the longest transition at 170 yards, but not surprising given the original 5th hole and corridor is NLE

Please do!  With all your posts it would be nice to mix in a useful one....... JK

[Phil Burr]

If the parcel where Nicklaus’ #5 sits had been available to Neville & Grant in 1919, would they have sited #6 tee where it is today?  In those pre-cart days, 170-yard uphill walks were a relatively rare green-to-tee transition.  if they hadn’t placed the tee where it now sits, would the resulting 6th hole be a straightaway long par four played to the base of the big hill?  Perhaps more intriguingly, is there a spot to the right of the fifth green where a tee could be placed and, with some tree removal, create a dramatic cape-style tee shot to the existing 6th fairway that allowed the player to choose a line based on much carry he could manage?

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, do you have experience calling in military airstrikes or otherwise operating airborne equipment?  This is truly admirable work.


Back to Pebble, the 10-11 distance is most surprising to me.  As for 16-17 being the greatest, perhaps every one of the 8 times I've played Pebble the 17th hole begins when I set foot on the US Open tee, even if I have to walk another 40 yards to the tee from which I'm obligated to play.

Google Earth is pretty straight forward for measuring distances like this.  I should post a tutorial sometime.

P.S.  5 to 6 is the longest transition at 170 yards, but not surprising given the original 5th hole and corridor is NLE

Please do!  With all your posts it would be nice to mix in a useful one....... JK

Ouch Jeff,

But I can't deny its at least partially true.  I'm certainly no Tom F$%^ing Doak! 

P.S.  I'll put this on my to do list for this weekend.  My wife and I will be fully vaccinated by the end of the month, but until then we continue to stay home 99% of the time...

[Gib_Papazian]

Succession, with the exception of one backtrack, the most efficient I have ever seen.

[Tom_Doak]

If the parcel where Nicklaus’ #5 sits had been available to Neville & Grant in 1919, would they have sited #6 tee where it is today?  In those pre-cart days, 170-yard uphill walks were a relatively rare green-to-tee transition.  if they hadn’t placed the tee where it now sits, would the resulting 6th hole be a straightaway long par four played to the base of the big hill?  Perhaps more intriguingly, is there a spot to the right of the fifth green where a tee could be placed and, with some tree removal, create a dramatic cape-style tee shot to the existing 6th fairway that allowed the player to choose a line based on much carry he could manage?

To the right of #5 green is off the cliff.


I highly doubt they would have walked back 170 yards to make the hole a par-5.  They could have made the hole a short par-4 with the tee a bit shorter and the green close to the cliff, or walked back 80-100 yards to make it a par-4 with room to drive to the base of the hill.  Neither of those solutions is better, which is probably one reason they were okay giving up #5 on the water in the first place. 

[Steve Wilson]

After citing Golspie's shortcomings other than from the 12th to the 13th I fired up Google Earth and discovered Golspie does better than I had imagined.

If you measure from the edge of the preceding green to the next tee box it measures in at 563 yards.  If you measure to the center of the next tee box it adds about 99 yards for a total  662.  Were it not for the walkback on six to seven which is 130 yards, it would easily come in under five hundred yards. 

In fact the average walk  would be only 27 yards.  There have to be some other fine British or Irish courses that come in under that number but its still an impressive showing for a very tight and comfortable routing.

[Carl Johnson]

My course, Carolina GC in Charlotte, has very short green to tee transitions, with the exception of 2 to 3 and 9 to 10.  And the 9 to 10 works 'cause you can stop at the swimming pool and get some food and/or liquid refreshment.  That having been said, the 9 to 10 transition was originally 6 to 7, or thereabout, in the original D. Ross layout.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  Works for me.

[Jeff Schley]

My course, Carolina GC in Charlotte, has very short green to tee transitions, with the exception of 2 to 3 and 9 to 10.  And the 9 to 10 works 'cause you can stop at the swimming pool and get some food and/or liquid refreshment.  That having been said, the 9 to 10 transition was originally 6 to 7, or thereabout, in the original D. Ross layout.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  Works for me.

Carl,
Never played there but a friend raved about it and said it was very walk able.

[Kalen Braley]

So here is a quick 2-3 minute video that will show you how to measure using Google Earth. He just happens to be measuring a golf course, and is fairly zoomed out.  I like to zoom all the way in to get as accurate as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysMo6cZQtHk

P.S.  This web version is a little older, now you can select your unit of measurement directly in the Distance tool, there is a little pull down option to select if you want feet, yards, miles, etc.

Enjoy and try to not get addicted! 

[Alex Miller]

Wilshire
Holes         Yards
1 to 2     14
2 to 3     8
3 to 4     110 (leave bag, par 3)
4 to 5     15
5 to 6     26
6 to 7     30
7 to 8     46 (leave bag, par 3)
8 to 9     16
9 to 10     190
10 to 11    47 (another convenient bag drop)
11 to 12    15
12 to 13    48 (leave bag, par 3)
13 to 14    16
14 to 15    18
15 to 16    7
16 to 17    37 (another without the bag)
17 to 18    24

Total of 667 yards, 477 without the 9 to 10 transition. If you want to take out spots where you needn't carry your bag that's 379 yards including the walk under Beverly Blvd!