Cities where the most famous golf course might not be the best course?

[Anthony Butler]

Conversely, in every Australian state the most famous course is also the best course.

[Phil McDade]

I'd guess in Milwaukee, Brown Deer and Tuckaway had a higher profile than Milwaukee CC in the GMO days, but those are long gone now.

Erin Hills might now be better known than Milwaukee CC (I'm not including Whistling Straits -- Sheboygan not yet in Milwaukee metro area; Hartford is...)

[Brian_Ewen]

Auchterarder.

[Drew Maliniak]

It seems that only in smaller U.S. towns is the best course the most famous.


Think Southern Hills or the Honors.


[size=78%]The U.S. needs more U.K. style golf (whether parkland, heathland or links). But the PGA Tour ruins that. And it could only be fixed if more clubs (or golf course management companies) embraced a low-cost, high-value approach to upkeep.  [/size]

[PCCraig]

Well - a lot of this can be blamed on the USGA/PGA. They drive courses to renovate and redesign in order to keep winning hosting gigs.


To me, I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to have one designated course in town that's the big "championship" course in town. Hazeltine, here in MSP, states in their mission statement that they goal of the club is to host major Am and Professional golf tournaments. Awesome. The other nice part of that is it lowers expectations of other clubs and their boards in town that they don't have a chance in hell of hosting a tournament so why bother installing a bunch of stupid back tees?

[Jeff Schley]

I'd put forth Austin, Texas.

Famous - Austin CCBest - Austin GC
Just changes one letter, but they are polar opposites in so many ways.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Surely Paris is a standout.
Especially after the Ryder Cup made Le National so “ famous “ a few courses in that wonderful city certain,y are a better fit for “ best” in comparison

[Steve Lang]

We shall see what happens with the renovation but presently I don't believe Oakland Hills is the best course in metro Detroit.

Ciao

I add to Sean's opinion.  Clearly Oakland Hills has suffered for years with the Jones family's "bunkers at so many yards" philosophy.  So you could argue (as of 2020) that Orchard Lake, The CCD, and now with Mike's redo of Bloomfield Hills maybe even a vote for them as being "better."  Nothing like Colt and Alison as a pedigree.  (I'm biased)


HOWEVER,  having seen the drone shots shots of Mr Hanse's 2020 redo and a few drive by views to confirm,  there is no doubt that Oakland Hills South is back to being a big time Donald Ross layout with some of the best property in Michigan and the best greens in the country.  Mr Hanse has sublimated his ego to that of Ross and the course, from 100 yards in, will be Ross 1937 Open. His wholesale shift of the third hole was a master stroke. I believe regarding length that the course can no play whatever yardage they want.  Given his work I believe that OH South will once again be best in Detroit as well as "most famous" given whatever historic criteria you use.  I'd even give a little (very small!) elbow to Tom and suggest that CD may get a run for its money as best in state.  I'd suggest that Oakland's property, as a contiguous grouping of rolling holes and views that cover the course in one glance is better than CD's.  (I'm now ducking to avoid the slings and arrows).


Detroit as a whole is on an upswing with the care and feeding of its Golden Age courses in the last decade.  Orchard Lake (Foster), Bloomfield Hills (DeVries), Franklin Hills (tweaking by ?), Detroit Golf Club (especially the "lowly" 5800 yard South course w/Hepner), Birmingham (Hepner's best Detroit effort imo), The Country Club thanks to Tom and Keith Foster, Meadowbrook (Andy Staples), are all now ready for their closeups.  Even the Bendelow, Park, etc Red Run is slowly coming along with Bruce H again at the wheel).  Plum Hollow (Alison original) with Drew Rogers' revisions will be the next course due its own thread.


Anthony

Anthony, Where do you rank Grosse Ile's Ross course other than down-river?  The green complexes are quite a bit of fun there...

[Anthony Gholz]

Steve:


Grosse Ile is on very good property, much better than DGC South or North.  Not as good as Oakland Hills.  It is also a fun course to play and keeps up your interest from hole to hole.  However, imo it need a reboot for bunkering and fairway contouring (and a few less flowers).  Even then not top 5 in Detroit area.  Today maybe 10-15, which is pretty good considering those I've already mentioned.


Anthony

[Sean_A]

Anthony

What do you mean reboot for fairway contouring?

Ciao

[Anthony Gholz]

Sean:


Sorry I wasn't clear.  By fairway contouring I mean mowing lines NOT re-contouring the fairways, ie topography.  Hope that's clear.  Just stand on any tee and try to fit the mowing lines into the contours.  Some go over humps some around, etc. Of course this only makes sense if the bunkering is considered together.  I wonder what historic drawings/photos GI has?


Foster's work at Orchard Lake comes to mind. 


Hanse work on remaking the fairway widths at Oakland Hills South is almost as important as what he did with the bunkers.


Anthony

[Ben Malach]

I am going to do western Canada

Vancouver-

Most Famous - Shaughnessy

Best - Capilano

Vancouver Island -

Most Famous- Bear Mountain

Best - Royal Victoria

Calgary

Most Famous - Priddis Greens

Best - Calgary GC

Edmonton


Most Famous - Royal Mayfair


Best - Blackhawk


Canmore


Most Famous- Stewart Creek


Best - Canmore GC

[Bill Buthorn]

Seattle Famous:  Sahalee


Best: Fircrest by Macan


St. Louis famous: Bellerive  Best: St. Louis CC


Birmingham,AL  Best:  Mountain Brook by Ross   famous: Shoal Creek


Chicago  Medinah    Best: Shoreacres


Hartford area famous: TPC Cromwell      Best: Shuttle Meadow

Mark,
While I don’t really disagree with your choices, those of us who live in the Puget Sound region might take issue.


Fircrest, indeed is a fine golf course, but is in Tacoma, less than a mile from its far more famous brethren, Chambers Bay.  A good discussion can be had about the relative merits of those two.

[/size][size=78%]Sahalee is the most well known course in the Seattle area, but Inglewood also Macan, is IMO better.  Again a good discussion. One course that I have never seen mentioned here, Seattle Golf Club might be in the talk as well.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]If you can’t beat the course, beat the ball.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Bill[/size]

[Garland Bayley]

Fircrest, indeed is a fine golf course, but is in Tacoma, less than a mile from its far more famous brethren, Chambers Bay.  A good discussion can be had about the relative merits of those two.
Fircrest is of course in Fircrest, WA not Tacoma. Both it and Chambers Bay would be easily considered Tacoma Metropolitan area. I love both, but gotta choose CB for the sand base.

Sahalee is the most well known course in the Seattle area, but Inglewood also Macan, is IMO better.  Again a good discussion. One course that I have never seen mentioned here, Seattle Golf Club might be in the talk as well.
Seattle used to get a lot of talk here when young Jordan Wall was a member here and a caddie there. I don't know Seattle very well, but I would venture that even West Seattle is better than Sahalee.

[Dan Gallaway]

Mark,
While I don’t really disagree with your choices, those of us who live in the Puget Sound region might take issue.


Fircrest, indeed is a fine golf course, but is in Tacoma, less than a mile from its far more famous brethren, Chambers Bay.  A good discussion can be had about the relative merits of those two.

[size=78%]Sahalee is the most well known course in the Seattle area, but Inglewood also Macan, is IMO better.  Again a good discussion. One course that I have never seen mentioned here, Seattle Golf Club might be in the talk as well.[/size]

[size=78%]If you can’t beat the course, beat the ball.[/size]

[size=78%]Bill[/size]



I'm so happy to see someone else think Inglewood is better the Sahalee!

[Garland Bayley]

...
I'm so happy to see someone else think Inglewood is better the Sahalee!

You must be new around here.

Anything golden age Macan or Egan did has to be better than dark age Robinson did by definition. No?

[Sean_A]

Sean:


Sorry I wasn't clear.  By fairway contouring I mean mowing lines NOT re-contouring the fairways, ie topography.  Hope that's clear.  Just stand on any tee and try to fit the mowing lines into the contours.  Some go over humps some around, etc. Of course this only makes sense if the bunkering is considered together.  I wonder what historic drawings/photos GI has?


Foster's work at Orchard Lake comes to mind. 


Hanse work on remaking the fairway widths at Oakland Hills South is almost as important as what he did with the bunkers.


Anthony

Sure, Grosse Ile, like so many courses, needs tree work, new grassing lines and a rethink on the bunker scheme. I haven't been back in several years, but I never got the impression the club would ever tackle these issues as a united plan.

Ciao

[Dan Gallaway]

...
I'm so happy to see someone else think Inglewood is better the Sahalee!

You must be new around here.

Anything golden age Macan or Egan did has to be better than dark age Robinson did by definition. No?

As I think on it.  It's mostly the people I meet outside of here that sing the praises of Sahalee.  As Hannibal Lecter once taught us, we covet what we know.

[Jeff Taylor]

Does Pinehurst #2 have any competition?

[Daryl David]

I am going to do western Canada

Vancouver-

Most Famous - Shaughnessy

Best - Capilano

Vancouver Island -

Most Famous- Bear Mountain

Best - Royal Victoria

Calgary

Most Famous - Priddis Greens

Best - Calgary GC

Edmonton


Most Famous - Royal Mayfair


Best - Blackhawk


Canmore


Most Famous- Stewart Creek


Best - Canmore GC

Royal Victoria???

[Will Lozier]

Monterey,CA (SSA)
Famous/Pebble Beach
Best/Cypress Point Club

Ditto Pete...my very first thought!

[Michael Whitaker]

The Kent Coast...


Most famous:  Royal St George's


Best:   

[JC Jones]

We shall see what happens with the renovation but presently I don't believe Oakland Hills is the best course in metro Detroit.

Ciao

Oakland Hills (South) has never not been the best course in metro Detroit; and, has always been the best course in the state.  None of the other recently renovated darlings can compare in land, routing, individual holes (regardless of fairway bunkering) or, greens.

[Jon Sweet]

Can only speak on here locally in Richmond, I would imagine a lot of people would say Kinloch and in my mind it's not even top 3 in the area.
CCV the River, The Foundry, Jefferson Lakeside(now Lakeside Park Club??), and one of Hermitage's 18s all far better lay outs and courses.
In fact, Glenwood, a Fred Findlay design who also designed Farmington in Charlottesville, just bones of the golf course is a far better track than Kinloch. Mind you, Glenwood isn't in good shape and not maintained, but in terms of golf holes and if it was conditioned properly, easily would be one of the best tracks in town.

[Jay Mickle]

Does Pinehurst #2 have any competition?

I don't think so as far as it being the best course, But as for being the most fun to play I think Mid Pines would out duel it in a split of 10 rounds. But you can bet that Southern Pines will be right up there after the completion of the "restoration" in September and surely others will go for Pine Needles. All tributes to the genius of Donald Ross.