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Adam Lawrence

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CLEEVE SAVED
« on: January 29, 2021, 09:48:36 AM »
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2021, 10:18:37 AM »
Well, that seems like good news.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mungo Park

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2021, 12:57:04 PM »
Yes, great news - I hope that 'Cotswold Hub Co' will do this unique location justice and keep it accessible to all. It is a real triumph for the Save Cleeve Hill Golf Course guys, and for Tewkesbury Borough . . . . who listened! Tom Morris is reputed to have designed it, as mentioned in a contemporary newspaper comment. I wonder if Melvyn Morrow knows anything about its detail? Certainly David Brown (Open winner 1886 and professional at the time at the Worcestershire GC in Malvern) was employed to build the greens and tees. Brown, from Musselburgh also designed and built Painswick, another extraordinary Cotswold course, within an Iron Age hill settlement. These two, with Minchinhampton Old really present golf as it used to be; plenty of space, a few cows and sheep and the occasional puff of wind to make life interesting.
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Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2021, 01:45:19 PM »
"The authority said the proposal 'promises to deliver a place 'where cyclists, walkers, golfers, riders, wildlife enthusiasts and historians all share a common interest: the unique Cleeve Hill'.'"

Love the concept.
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Tom Mills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2021, 03:37:18 PM »
For those that would be interested, we got to speak to the new proprietors - The Cotswold Hub Co about their plans with the club:


https://cookiejargolf.com/cleeve-hill-golf-club-new-owners-announced/
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Tom Mills

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2021, 05:11:17 PM »
Tom - Well done! Cleeve Cloud is so special. The podcast is excellent. Thanks!


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"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2021, 05:23:03 PM »
Quote from: Mungo Park on January 29, 2021, 12:57:04 PM
Yes, great news - I hope that 'Cotswold Hub Co' will do this unique location justice and keep it accessible to all. It is a real triumph for the Save Cleeve Hill Golf Course guys, and for Tewkesbury Borough . . . . who listened! Tom Morris is reputed to have designed it, as mentioned in a contemporary newspaper comment. I wonder if Melvyn Morrow knows anything about its detail? Certainly David Brown (Open winner 1886 and professional at the time at the Worcestershire GC in Malvern) was employed to build the greens and tees. Brown, from Musselburgh also designed and built Painswick, another extraordinary Cotswold course, within an Iron Age hill settlement. These two, with Minchinhampton Old really present golf as it used to be; plenty of space, a few cows and sheep and the occasional puff of wind to make life interesting.


I am surprised to see Old Tom Morris' name come up as the designer of the course.  When I played it a few years ago, I tried to sort out who had designed it and the only sources I could find mentioned David Brown.  When was the attribution to Old Tom made?
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Tom Mills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 04:13:06 AM »
I believe it was Sean Arble that found Melvyn Morrow Hunter, descendent of Old Tom, who had some newspaper clippings from 1891 declaring the course was laid out by Old Tom, but I'm sure Sean has more details than I!
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Tom Mills

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 04:27:55 AM »
See the first page or so of this course tour thread where ‘who did what’ at Cleeve is debated -


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html


As I enquired on the other thread -
“Has any further progress been made on who-did-what at Cleeve?
Reading through the earlier posts within this thread there’s debate about OTM’s involvement and mention of David Browns brother (not DB himself) being involved. Plus later on Cole & Huggett and Hawtree.”
Atb
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 04:32:42 AM by Thomas Dai »
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Tom Mills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2021, 07:04:31 AM »
I'm certainly no expert and don't claim to be, but Melvyn posted the photo of The Golfer's Guide circa mid 1890's and the clip states
 
"The course of eighteen holes on Cleeve Common, about three miles from the town, from which a bus runs four times daily in winter, and every half hour in the Summer. The green was laid out by Tom Morris, and offers plenty of variety consisting of quarries, road gorse and cart-****. IT is about 3 1/2 miles *****. Magnificent views over the lowlands of Gloucestershire and Worcestershire, to the far-away hills of Wales and Shropshire are to be *******"
 
*s indicate words i couldn't quite make out! But it does seem to indicate the involvement. Nostalgically, and perhaps full of confirmation bias, I want to believe this to be true as it adds so much romance to the place! Also it's hard to argue with the above article unless one would doubt its authenticity.
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Tom Mills

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2021, 05:39:35 AM »
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 06:17:28 AM »
I really do need to make an effort to do a Cleeve / Painswick / Minchimpton visit.
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Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CLEEVE SAVED
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2021, 05:34:53 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on January 30, 2021, 04:27:55 AM
See the first page or so of this course tour thread where ‘who did what’ at Cleeve is debated -


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49796.0.html


As I enquired on the other thread -
“Has any further progress been made on who-did-what at Cleeve?
Reading through the earlier posts within this thread there’s debate about OTM’s involvement and mention of David Browns brother (not DB himself) being involved. Plus later on Cole & Huggett and Hawtree.”
Atb
OTM laid the original course out, the 14th-15th remain, the OTM holes are left of 17 you can still see pads for the tees/greens. David Brown's brother was the greenkeeper.
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A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com
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