Seth Raynor course for sale

[Duncan Cheslett]

Conor Lewis just shared this on Facebook.


https://www.bullseyeauctions.com/auctions/detail/bw58490?fbclid=IwAR2XuJ78kLdI0ZT6yhi7a4drkTO7BOx4EZjUdl-dBLFpdR1CRicmW_mSWxM

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Is it closed?  I tried to access their website and could not get it to load?

[Jonathan Webb]

Lake Wales Country Club was my home course growing up.


Was in Florida last week and it was open.

Some relevant links:

https://www.theledger.com/article/LK/20130109/News/608084775/LL

http://floridahistoricgolftrail.com/courses/lake-wales-country-club/

http://theaposition.com/anthonypioppi/golf/2295/seth-raynor-a-comprehensive-list-of-the-projects-with-which-he-was-associated

[Ken Fry]

Here's some great historical info and research on Lake Wales:

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59487.0.html

Ken

[Tim Martin]

Please don’t tell Brad Faxon.

[Jonathan Cummings]

The current owners (a nice young couple) have a pro shop full of shirts with logos that say, "Lake Wales  A 1924 Donald Ross Design".   ugh

[Mark Smolens]

In reading the thread linked by Ken Fry above, I'm wondering why the owners continue to insist that Ross get credit for the course as opposed to Raynor. They're both extraordinarily well-regarded Golden Age architects. Does the cachet of the Ross name carry that much more weight than that of Raynor?


Hoping to purchase the winning Mega Millions ticket for tomorrow night so that I can afford to buy my own course 

[Stewart Abramson]

Here's a link to photos of Lake Wales CC from Dec 20, 2020


https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157717443953967


I had no idea of a Raynor connection. Their website and merchandise all say Donald Ross


Edited to fix link

[Mike_Young]

I've looked at this deal.  The only person to make money here is the 10% commission to be added to the bid.  Sadly the course has no value.  A golf operator would offer maybe $100,000 at the most.  First, clubhouse would need demolition, and then minimum of 2.5 mill in work unless you can do it yourself....numbers do not work.    The problem is there are better deals for guys wanting in the golf owning business and if you have to rebuild it anyway then get someone to give you the land....it takes a sucker for these things and the RE people know that.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I've looked at this deal.  The only person to make money here is the 10% commission to be added to the bid.  Sadly the course has no value.  A golf operator would offer maybe $100,000 at the most.  First, clubhouse would need demolition, and then minimum of 2.5 mill in work unless you can do it yourself....numbers do not work.    The problem is there are better deals for guys wanting in the golf owning business and if you have to rebuild it anyway then get someone to give you the land....it takes a sucker for these things and the RE people know that.

Yes. While the thought of buying a "Raynor" course at auction sounds romantic, it would be a stretch to even say the bones of Raynor's work is still there.


To get "Joe Golfer" to leave the highway & give up a round at Streamsong, you would have to spend enough money in upgrades to make something special. Its not the land that should cost the money, its the upgrades to make it appealing enough. $5m would get eaten up real quickly, even with an architect doing some pro bono work.

[John Kavanaugh]

I've looked at this deal.  The only person to make money here is the 10% commission to be added to the bid.  Sadly the course has no value.  A golf operator would offer maybe $100,000 at the most.  First, clubhouse would need demolition, and then minimum of 2.5 mill in work unless you can do it yourself....numbers do not work.    The problem is there are better deals for guys wanting in the golf owning business and if you have to rebuild it anyway then get someone to give you the land....it takes a sucker for these things and the RE people know that.

Sounds like a perfect course for the local municipality to buy.

[jeffwarne]

I've looked at this deal.  The only person to make money here is the 10% commission to be added to the bid.  Sadly the course has no value.  A golf operator would offer maybe $100,000 at the most.  First, clubhouse would need demolition, and then minimum of 2.5 mill in work unless you can do it yourself....numbers do not work.    The problem is there are better deals for guys wanting in the golf owning business and if you have to rebuild it anyway then get someone to give you the land....it takes a sucker for these things and the RE people know that.

Sounds like a perfect course for the local municipality to buy.

and invest 20 million

[John_Cullum]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

[John Emerson]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

How bad of shape is it in?  Routing changes? Bunker removal?  Tree plantings?  Or is it just agronomic neglect over the years?

[Bill Brightly]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

What do you mean?

[Tim Martin]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

What do you mean?

I think Sarge is just having a little fun.

[Joel_Stewart]

Is it just me or are there no financials?  All I've seen is that the current owners paid $800,000? 


Would like to know how many rounds have been played recently, gross and net profit.



I agree with Mike Young that the economics on this are basically impossible.

[Anthony_Nysse]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

How bad of shape is it in?  Routing changes? Bunker removal?  Tree plantings?  Or is it just agronomic neglect over the years?

Its a blow up if you're thinking you want a Raynor. Turfwise, irrigation wise? Blow it up.

[Michael Whitaker]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

Whoa! A hard right to the jaw!!! 

[Jonathan Webb]

Current owners payed closer to $600k back in 2016.

[Mike_Young]

Current owners payed closer to $600k back in 2016.

That was their fault.  Probably worth less than $100,000 strictly as a business deal. JMO

[John_Cullum]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

What do you mean?

Appreciation of Seth Raynor's work requires more beard to pull than I am willing to grow.


I stopped by on Saturday to see how things looked. It's in mediocre playable condition. All it needs is regrassing and updated irrigation. The clubhouse needs some cosmetic work. Obviously I can't comment on the roof or systems.


They have really nice stainless steel ashtrays mounted on the wall by each of the urinals. It's a nice touch

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

For what it's worth, it's a very good golf course in my opinion. I would say it's the best Raynor I've ever seen, because it is totally devoid of anything Raynoresque.

What do you mean?

Appreciation of Seth Raynor's work requires more beard to pull than I am willing to grow.


I stopped by on Saturday to see how things looked. It's in mediocre playable condition. All it needs is regrassing and updated irrigation. The clubhouse needs some cosmetic work. Obviously I can't comment on the roof or systems.


They have really nice stainless steel ashtrays mounted on the wall by each of the urinals. It's a nice touch

Missed you by a day...   After reading this and knowing that I had never played it I zipped down there for a quick round, just in case something wierd happens after the auction.  I enjoyed the course but I see very little Raynor left as people mention. 


Conditions were not as bad as I expected, and overall the course was enjoyable.  I talked with the owner a little bit, and jumped over to take a look at the sister course Oakwood GC right next doo, also owned by the family (his Father or Father-in-law I think).  It was much less interesting, and also in even worse condition.  The auction for that course I think was today.


I will be interested to hear what Oakwood sold for today, and also what LWCC sells for next week.

[Jonathan Webb]

Any updates on who the winning bids were for Lake Wales CC and Oakwood?

I understand both are still in the 30 day D.D.

[John Emerson]

Any updates on who the winning bids were for Lake Wales CC and Oakwood?

I understand both are still in the 30 day D.D.

I think LW went for about 600k