Par 5s where interest isn't derived from hazards

[Tim Gallant]

With all the 'best' holes discussions happening, it made me think of par-5s, and specifically how many utilise hazards (sand, water, even OB) to create interest, specifically on second shots. What are the best examples of good par-5s where the primary interest of the hole is not because of a hazard(s)? And what is used to create the interest? 4 at Lahinch immediately comes to mind.

[Thomas Dai]

13th at RND/Westward Ho.
Short in distance, flat as a pancake, massive width, limited fairway bunkers easily avoided but with a small pimple like green of the utmost evilness/beauty.
atb


Below - photo of the 13th green as per a photo tour herein

[Kyle Harris]

The 8th at Crystal Downs

[Ronald Montesano]

Agree. That 8th hole is a climb and a half. I was shooting while the guys were playing and let me say this: I had all the time in the world to get photos. Looked to be a bunch of brilliant shot opportunities; just not a lot of brilliant shots that day Except Roger, of course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

13th at RND/Westward Ho.
Short in distance, flat as a pancake, massive width, limited fairway bunkers easily avoided but with a small pimple like green of the utmost evilness/beauty.
atb


Below - photo of the 13th green as per a photo tour herein

Thirteen is one of the most interesting par fives on the planet. It is only 442 yards long yet I have birdied it only a few times in my 25 or 30 plays. The semi-volcano green does not allow an easy run-up shot. The smallish green isn't easy to pitch too either. Most longer hitters won't have a problem for for old men it is a great hazardless hole.

[Joe Hancock]

The 18th at Greywalls

[Tom_Doak]

Most of the ones I can think of involve getting up a big hill on the second shot:


13th at Silloth
8th at Augusta
6th at Pebble Beach, before they moved the fairway close to the cliff on the right


Technically, also, the 12th at Royal Ashdown Forest has no "hazards" but the carry on the second shot is quite hazardous.

[Daryl David]

4th at Tumble Creek

[Tim Martin]

Agree. That 8th hole is a climb and a half. I was shooting

Shooting?

[Michael Felton]

The ones that spring to my mind are 7 at RSG and 3 at RCP. I'd also add 16 at RCP on the days that it's a par 5. All three have incredible land movements. 7 at RSG it's more the tee shot, but 3 at RCP it's the last 100 yards and the area around the green. Virtually unplayable downwind when the ground is firm.


The one other one that popped into my head is 15 at PVGC. There's the lake in front off the tee and there are bunkers up by the green, but my impression of the hole is the wide fairway at the start of the hole that just gets narrower and narrower as you continue along the hole. So it has hazards on it, but I don't think that's what creates the interest (very much unlike its brother).

[Pete_Pittock]

Agree. That 8th hole is a climb and a half. I was shooting

Shooting?

shooting pictures

[Mark_Fine]

It is interesting how things circle around in GCA.  When the game of golf was first invented there were no such things or even rules that defined “hazards”, only hazardous situations you could get yourself into like in a ditch or in a gorse bush or in a sand pit or in tall grass or in water or on a very tight lie or behind an obstacle or ....  Today the game of golf has circled back to where it no longer has defined any of these things as hazards including water or bunkers.  Water is now a penalty area and bunkers are just bunkers.  Maybe it is in part because there are so many features that can be classified as hazardous?  All I know is that any great hole has something that is challenging and constitutes a problem to be solved.  Ross once said, “the interest in the game increases with the diversity of it problems.”

[Steve Lapper]

Yale #18

[Charles Lund]

The 17th at Prairie Dunes is a relatively short par five, complicated by wind.  The hogback green is situated with a dropoff  to the right and  trouble on the left.  For me it will always be a three shotter and into the wind the third shot requires a lot of precision due to the contours of the green with very little forgiveness left or right.


Charles Lund

[Jeff_Mingay]

Most of the ones I can think of involve getting up a big hill on the second shot:


13th at Silloth
8th at Augusta
6th at Pebble Beach, before they moved the fairway close to the cliff on the right


Technically, also, the 12th at Royal Ashdown Forest has no "hazards" but the carry on the second shot is quite hazardous.

Tom,


What about the 8th at Crystal Downs? Seems to fit the same bill.

[Tim Gavrich]

5 at Homestead-Cascades has a couple bunkers but that hill beyond the landing area is what defines the hole.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

What about the 8th at Crystal Downs? Seems to fit the same bill.

It had already been nominated and seconded, so I didn't pile on, even though it was the first hole I thought of.


That is such an interesting hole, because it isn't obvious where it takes up all the elevation.  From tee to green you climb 50 feet, but to the first landing area it's only twelve feet, and the second shot about 15 more if you stay to the right.  Yes, even from the best spot in the fairway, the third shot is more than 20 feet uphill !!

[Garland Bayley]

5th at Strandhill
2nd at Perranporth
10th at Black Forest.
8th at Murvagh
6, 7, 10 at Juniper. 7 and 10 may have bunkers, but it is the lava and volcanic landscape that provide the interest.

[Tim Gallant]

Some great suggestions so far! Silloth is one I can't believe I forgot! I've not yet played RWD, but that certainly seems like an intriguing green complex.


Mark, well said, and to your Ross quote, I wonder if par-5s, moreso than 3s or 4s are prone to an over-reliance on man-made hazards to create interest (ie-bunkers). I find it interesting that on this thread so far, there are more examples of courses that wouldn't be characterised as 'modern'

[Scott Champion]

The par 5 10th at Newcastle immediately came to mind as an exciting hole that relies purely on the interest of the landform rather than any man-made hazards. A double blind rollercoaster style fairway played up and over two dune ridges. It’s a shame the green that is often approached blind has several bunkers as it would be better without any.

[Pete_Pittock]

If Garland is going to mention Juniper, I'll head southeast a few miles to Pronghorn Nicklaus 15 and 16 with a ditto to his description.
Someone will soon chip in with Hawaiian lava field courses.

[Mark Pearce]

The two that immediately sprung to my mind (Silloth 13, Newcastle 10) have already been mentioned. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think that if you are just looking for landforms affecting play / strategy (as opposed to bunkers, water or OB), then 3 out of the 6 holes at Carne are excellent examples: 1 and 5 on Kilmore and 18 on Hackett.


There are numerous other great examples. My favourite par-5 in Ireland (8 at Murvagh) is one. 3 at Baltray is another. 16 at Enniscrone also a good example.

[Tim Gallant]

I think that if you are just looking for landforms affecting play / strategy (as opposed to bunkers, water or OB), then 3 out of the 6 holes at Carne are excellent examples: 1 and 5 on Kilmore and 18 on Hackett.


There are numerous other great examples. My favourite par-5 in Ireland (8 at Murvagh) is one. 3 at Baltray is another. 16 at Enniscrone also a good example.

Ally,


I'm hopefully to see both Carne, Baltray and Enniscrone next year - all dependent on travel restrictions of course. Is Murvagh worth a stop between Sligo and Rosapenna?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Tim,


Murvagh has a cracking stretch (5-8, even 5-11) and a well thought out circular routing. Depends what you haven’t seen yet in NW Ireland as to whether you should add it to your agenda.


If you Golf Mag rater types are making a joint trip to St Patricks next summer, I’d be only too delighted in assisting with organising a couple of other rounds either side. Should be able to put a nice mini-agenda together if desired.