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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Tom has posted some fantastic photos on his Instagram page:
https://www.instagram.com/doakgolf/

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
:)
Atb
PS - it's not the St-P area more an old general view across the delightful linksland at Rosapenna-Sheephaven Bay-Downings including in the far distance the old Rosapenna Hotel. The green in the foreground is the now 14th on the OTM course.

(An old b&w photo with colour now added)




You get almost this exact view from the back tee for the 4th hole at St. Patrick's, but only if you go to the back tee, which I can't encourage everyone to do.  I'd rather you get to the fairway!

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
Tom has posted some fantastic photos on his Instagram page:
https://www.instagram.com/doakgolf/



I won't get any good pictures today, it is pretty stormy up here, but I have a few in the queue from earlier in the week.


I can't be here for opening day, as I have to get across to Scotland before I head home, but I am here for the rest of this week so you will keep seeing pictures on my Instagram.

Dan_Callahan

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I can't be here for opening day, as I have to get across to Scotland before I head home, but I am here for the rest of this week so you will keep seeing pictures on my Instagram.

The pictures really do look amazing. I can't wait to get over there, although increasingly it's looking like that won't happen until summer 2022.

Since this is your first time seeing the course in a while, is it what you expected? Did anything surprise you when you saw the finished product?

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13

The pictures really do look amazing. I can't wait to get over there, although increasingly it's looking like that won't happen until summer 2022.

Since this is your first time seeing the course in a while, is it what you expected? Did anything surprise you when you saw the finished product?


Dealing with the COVID rules is a real roller coaster.  Just this morning Ireland announced that they would quarantine visitors coming from the UK, because of the more virulent strain of COVID there, which will be another hit to the number of rounds at St. Patrick's this summer.  But you can't blame them, really, since only people over 45-50 have been able to get the vaccine here so far.


As for coming from the USA, I am vaccinated, but I had to get a COVID test result in a narrow window before departure [which is hard to do flying out of Traverse City!] and sign up for another 5 days after I landed.  I just had my second test yesterday, but it takes 24-48 hours to get the result and I am still waiting [tick tock!].  Luckily I have a nice place to exercise that isn't open to the public so I don't have to worry about infecting anyone!


My understanding is that from July 19, you won't have to quarantine for five days as I did, and once you are in country, you're good to go.  So, if you can travel, I would travel.  [If they don't change the rules again day after tomorrow!]


What do I think of the course?  Not surprisingly, I like it a lot.  The crew has done a great job getting it cleared wide enough to find your ball unless you hit an egregious shot; the greens are still quite slow so it's hard to get a feel, but I think there is good variety there, and good variety from around the greens as well.  It may seem pretty easy when the wind isn't blowing, but the wind is usually blowing.  My favorite thing so far is the variety of fairway undulation, which is as good as anywhere I can think of, from the tiny to the dramatic.  It seems like all of the longer holes have the possibility of a wild stance for the second shot, which, combined with the wind, could be more punishing than a deep bunker would be.  The par-3's are all beauties, and I think the 17th could wind up calling for a draw to some hole locations and a fade to others, once the pace of the turf quickens.


Is it an 8 or a 9 or a 10 on the Doak Scale?  It's hard to say at this point, but it's up at that end of the scale.  Ally Macintosh is coming up tomorrow; you can ask him.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Total Karma: 0
I sense from the photos, that it you will really need a good short game to score well. The greens look quite open and appear to encourage the ground game, but it looks like hitting the green will be no guarantee of a low score. Some of the greens look quite large with plenty of hole locations to choose from.


You mentioned previously that an acquaintance of yours walked the course an commented that it was unlike any course in the UK/Irl. I'm sure you knew that yourself. The undulating greens are so different to anything we have in Ireland and the waste-area type bunkering is definitely a first.


Any indication of how long the course is from the back and regular tees?


Fingers crossed I can visit in July/August.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 05:21:09 PM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: -1
:)
Atb
PS - it's not the St-P area more an old general view across the delightful linksland at Rosapenna-Sheephaven Bay-Downings including in the far distance the old Rosapenna Hotel. The green in the foreground is the now 14th on the OTM course.

(An old b&w photo with colour now added)

You get almost this exact view from the back tee for the 4th hole at St. Patrick's, but only if you go to the back tee, which I can't encourage everyone to do.  I'd rather you get to the fairway!


Not to thread-jack but the original Rosapenna Hotel visible in the far distance in the above photo used to look like this ... bit swish! :)
atb



Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Total Karma: 0
The hotel was built in 1892 but sadly burned down on 16 May 1962. It was located about 100-m north of the present clubhouse. It was definitely not the type of place where the locals hung out. The resort was advertised as the "Norway of Ireland" and the wood for the construction of the hotel was imported from Norway or Sweden.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 06:05:04 AM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
The Norway of Ireland?  I have not heard that one before!


Donal, thanks for your comments.  It’s hard for me to remember how flat are most greens in the UK and Ireland; I haven’t played much golf here in the last 15-20 years, and most of what I have played were on courses that are the exceptions to the rule!


The only greens I would call “severe” by my standards are the 11th and the 17th, but you are right that they are mostly large so that being on the green in regulation is no automatic par (especially with the greens still slow).  Until this past week, George was mowing all of the approaches and surrounds at the same height as the greens, and I think my friend was imagining they incorporated more of the wild contours at the edges!


It’s actually the contours in the fairways that has first-time visitors buzzing.  The fairways aren’t so tight that the ball always rolls to a flat spot, so you find yourself hitting some long shots from hanging lies in the wind, which is a real test!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Now back in Dublin, I will give some quick first impressions which I will flesh out more later:


- To Donal's point, there are other undulating greens in GB&I but the difference here is the space. None of these greens (or very few anyway) are constrained by tight pockets of dunes. They all have large surrounds around them, in keeping with the landscape. There are some quite severe slopes but they all work beautifully, whether with a slope that allows balls to be fed to hard pin positions (5 & 17) or levels that demand to be approached from a preferred side of the fairway. The overarching feeling is of variety. No two greens are the same and they don't repeat patterns (something that I felt was done a little on the front nine of the OTM). I guess there were different lead shapers on the greens and this helped variety but really, they are just a great set that fit the landscape perfectly. Enormous fun.


- To Donal's other point, the waste, natural bunkers here make a mockery of the overused term for many other courses, where cookie-cutter bunkers that are placed in to built up mounds have to have their edges maintained to keep the "look". They are chalk and cheese to the sand scrapes here, so well done that it is often not clear whether they were natural blow-outs, created by livestock or built by man. The really brave decision was to leave or accentuate some of the land that had been torn up by Nicklaus and left to the wind 15 years ago. These man-made areas now fit beautifully. Links land moves with the elements. It is supposed to change. Why do people insist on taming it and trying to keep it formalised?


To Tom's point on the fairway undulations, that was what immediately stood out to me. I don't think there is a course with a better mix through the 18 anywhere. Great macro-movement as some fairways move across mini dune-ridges (the 9th does this excellently at an oblique angle), rollicking mounds right through plenty of fairways, right down to micro-mounds on some and then completely natural fescue fields surrounded by blow-outs such as the 2nd and 7th. Again, why do some architects feel the need to soften fairway undulations beyond the point of being able to get a mower on them? Or even worse, just flatten the lot and then "re-shape" in new undulations that follow an obvious formula. Fairway movement is what we all love. Why do too much to get rid of them?


So to the holes and the routing: It starts with a bang, a magnificent 1st hole (the bones of which were there previously but have now been vastly improved) to the most secluded valley green site on the property. The 2nd also follows an old corridor and makes the most of a chain of blow-outs and the first amazing view of many as you crest the ridge to the tee.


I love the way the first few holes gradually reveal and I love the way Tom takes this loop of six back to connect with the 7th which also followed an old hole routing. When I saw he had routed it this way, I was worried the walk from six green to seven tee was going to be strenuous but having used a few tricks (and because of my faulty memory), this is no problem whatsoever and flows very naturally.


8 was an obvious hole to build it sets up so well but cleverly, the green has been built in such a fashion that allows the ninth tee to be positioned adjacent and up high, in turn setting up for me one of my favourite holes (maybe just because of that oblique angle it plays over a couple of ridges)


The routing very cleverly works round the back of the imposing central hill that may stand proud on the site but doesn't provide the best golfing land or routing options. This allows another huge reveal on the 14th (in some ways a more spectacular version of the 17th at BallyB), a quite quirky short par-3 following (think 14 at BallyB) and some more great views (framed by the huge off-site blow-out) on 16 tee.


17 is one of my favourite holes, a long par-3 to a wide-open green site. Subtle until you reach the heavily sloped green. 18 is a beautifully scaled short par-4 to finish.


Right now, I don't have time to say more and the above was just a stream of consciousness. I'll try and write a longer essay which puts more detail in to my first impressions. Suffice to say, the course exceeded my already very high expectations. Where will it land? Who know? Right now, it doesn't have the weight of history behind it that some of the others do. But it has to challenge the "Big 5" and once it's in that mix, it really just comes down to people's preferences because all of those 5 are world class. As is St. Patrick's
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 05:11:59 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Kevin Markham

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Suffice to say, the course exceeded my already very high expectations. Where will it land? Who know? Right now, it doesn't have the weight of history behind it that some of the others do. But it has to challenge the "Big 5" and once it's in that mix, it really just comes down to people's preferences because all of those 5 are world class. As is St. Patrick's


Well that certainly whets the appetite for my visit next week, Ally. Due to play it Monday or Tuesday, and hoping the weather plays along. Everything about it sounds remarkable and, as an Irishman, it is superb for Irish golf that we can now boast a Tom Doak course.


I read somewhere that St Patrick's now "puts the north west of Ireland on the bucket list of golf destinations" - which is a touch unfair on the other beautiful Donegal links courses - but Tom Doak's name alone will bring the region to an ever wider audience.




Tom - Mr Doak - I see you're off to Scotland. Not sure when you depart our shores but if you're around for a drink at Rosapenna tomorrow evening - Saturday - it would be an honour to meet you.

Mike Sweeney

  • Total Karma: 0
Somewhere in the GCA archives, Saint Pat's was the "What if" course that would pop up often on March 17th every other year or so. My son and I are targeting 2022 as this looks just fabulous. Thanks for posting your thoughts Tom, Ally, and others.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

jeffwarne

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It’s actually the contours in the fairways that has first-time visitors buzzing.  The fairways aren’t so tight that the ball always rolls to a flat spot, so you find yourself hitting some long shots from hanging lies in the wind, which is a real test!


Congrats-sounds fantastic!
Is there a chance this could become a trend again?
Fairways maintained at a height that allows the ball to stay IN the fairway(not the friction of the rough) AND seek a not level spot!
AND, a bit more grass in the fairway  has the added bonus of allowing an amateur to actually have a chance to get the club on the ball.
We give the better player FAR too many advantages in this game in the name of consistency and spin control, nearly always at the expense of strategy/variety and contact by the average player.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 08:43:28 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: -1
It’s actually the contours in the fairways that has first-time visitors buzzing.  The fairways aren’t so tight that the ball always rolls to a flat spot, so you find yourself hitting some long shots from hanging lies in the wind, which is a real test!
Congrats-sounds fantastic!
Is there a chance this could become a trend again?
Fairways maintained at a height that allows the ball to stay IN the fairway AND seek a not level spot!
AND, a bit more grass in the fairway  has the added bonus of allowing an amateur to actually have a chance to get the club on the ball.
We give the better player FAR too many advantages in this game in the name of consistency and spin control, nearly always at the expense of strategy/variety and contact by the average player.
Well said Jeff and splendid design ethos too by Tom and Co.
I’ve long reckoned that the best height for fairway grass is the height sheep nibble at. Goats are pretty useful for scrub and brush clearness on off-fairway areas too.
Atb

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
Ally:


Thank you for your thorough (and highly complimentary) review!  It’s a good feel for the course without giving it all away. Your praise was even more effusive here than in your private note to me - most people do that the other way around.  :-X


Jeff and Dai:


It would be nice if they kept the fairways at this height but I am sure there will be pressure to cut them tighter as the green fees go higher.  For now, the course is so rugged that trying to cut everything that tight would see us scalping every other contour, so we are using leased equipment with old reels to work on it.  I was amazed how tight they could cut The Old Course at St Andrew’s nowadays, but as a friend said, that’s what 400 years of maturity will do for you.  St Patrick’s isn’t ready for that quite yet.

David Jones

  • Total Karma: 0
A rather wonderful review from Chris Bertram in Today's Golfer.


https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-and-events/general-news/2021/june/rosapenna-st-patricks-links-golf-course-first-play/

Looking forward to the Irish quarantine for us Scottish travellers being lifted some time this year!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Chris is quick off the mark with his review and certainly has some of the same thoughts I did.


I was planning to write something for Irish Golfer magazine but am less sure now: I don’t want to write yet another gushing magazine review - there will be plenty of them over the next few months. I’d much prefer to do something a little more architecturally detailed and say something a bit different; and for that, I’ll visit and play again first.



Peter Flory

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Looks nice and rugged.

David Jones

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Chris is quick off the mark with his review and certainly has some of the same thoughts I did.


I was planning to write something for Irish Golfer magazine but am less sure now: I don’t want to write yet another gushing magazine review - there will be plenty of them over the next few months. I’d much prefer to do something a little more architecturally detailed and say something a bit different; and for that, I’ll visit and play again first.


Very much looking forward to that Ally. As you say, there will be a lot of press over the next few weeks and months and something architecturally driven would be great to read.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
A rather wonderful review from Chris Bertram in Today's Golfer.


https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-and-events/general-news/2021/june/rosapenna-st-patricks-links-golf-course-first-play/



Good Lord, that may be the most positive review of a course I have ever read.  So much for keeping people’s expectations in check!

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 07:21:47 PM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Jeff Johnston

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Not long returned from a week in Downings, including a round on St Patrick's Links - congratulations to Mr Doak and team (and the Caseys of course) on a significant achievement.

I'm loath to mention too many specific holes, but agree with Ally that the first is a belting opener, and 6 is a corker; would also pick out 9, 10 (loved the draping of the greensite around the bunker), and the flow again of 13 and 14 as a pair. The 17th is so elemental in its (current) presentation as to be almost unique in my expereience; I appreciate the green itself may become more visually defined as the mowing lines sharpen between greens and surrounds, but if the current look / feel can be maintained to an extent I think that would be v cool.

I think Donal's suggestion is spot on that a good short game (v much including the flat stick) will go well here, along with imagination and patience / sense of humour. The course is v bold in its placement of greens with signficant mounds in front of (or indeed partially onto) them, along with others tucked behind dune corners ; then there is the scale and movement within many of the greens themselves to work with.

Mr Doak, if I can ask, was it just a coincidence or did you have in mind a nod to some of the sportier elements of past days? For a modern build there is a signficant element of having to work with only a partial (or sometimes no) view of the pin (in a v good way IMO).

I hadn't played at Rosapenna for about 15 years, and enjoyed seeing the (not so) new front 9 on the Old - v good IMO and I think the 9th green on the Old may be my favourite on the property - what a piece of work. Also enjoyed the now much-less-penal Sandy Hills; still need to bring your game but feels more like golf now compared to the mortal combat of the original incarnation.

All v much worth a look, and with St Patrick's now up and running Rosapenna has three quite distinct styles of links to enjoy - no mean offering.

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 13
Jeff:  It didn’t occur to me until my recent trip that the greens on 6, 7, and 8 are all semi blind, and some hole locations on 9 and 10 also.  Those are not the only instances, but having that many in a row is certainly unusual nowadays (though I suspect you could make the same analysis of Ballyneal).


It’s interesting that it hasn’t been mentioned before by Ally or by Chris Bertram in their very thorough reviews.  Clearly it didn’t bother them much.  I suspect some people will not like it for that reason, though they may fail to identify the reason.


Thanks for mentioning 17 which is a personal favorite green.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Total Karma: 6
Well there’s blind and then there’s BLIND. I think Jeff was being complimentary in that on a few of these holes, there isn’t an onus on having to see all of the green site which in itself is a very modern trait.


The only hole Tom mentions where you won’t really see the top of the flag from more than half of the fairway is No.7; and even there you’ve had a perfect view of it from the elevated tee. 14 is the other hole where you may have a completely blind approach I reckon. 13 occasionally because of it’s “up ‘n’ over” routing.


The above three are due to routing and location of green site, all the others have been designed in the detail and I find that refreshing (in other words, Tom and team could have made more of the green site visible but didn’t put a premium on it)….


But make no mistake, there is nothing that is really BLIND at St.Patrick’s, like at RCD or Carne or Lahinch or Enniscrone.

Jeff Johnston

  • Total Karma: 0
Thanks Tom and Ally, and spot on Ally that I v much took a positive view of how the sight lines have been plotted. For me it adds an additional element of feel and visualisation when standing over your approach (as you say in most instances having had a clearer view of the green / pin from elsewhere on the hole).

And of course the individual golfer's placement / user error v much comes into the equation as well. On 7, seeing from the elevated tee that the pin was tucked on the left behind the encroaching dune corner, yours truly proceeded to drive in the left fairway and leave himself a blind approach (probably intimidated by the collection of sandy areas right). Even then though, I'd seen from the tee where the pin was, plus you can walk up the middle / right fairway to get a view once down there, and you have the Lahinch style marker stone beind the green as a guide. As it happened I nailed the approach (v rare) and was so pleased about it I then proceeded to mangle the v much not-blind putt  ::)....

And I agree with you Ally that 14 is probably the one instance where a fully blind approach is a possibility - particulalrly from a drive that is shorter and / or to the right. From left fairway I was pretty much at my ball before I got a sight of the top of the flag peeping over the right dune corner - which I v much enjoyed. Had me chuckling and remembering similar reaction to the 8th (I think) at Saunton.