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Tim_Weiman

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2020, 04:01:42 PM »
"Truly unique" is a very high standard, and beyond St. Andrews and maybe Oakmont and Pine Valley, I am not sure there are any courses that could pass a thorough interrogation.  Maybe Cape Breton Highlands [golf as a trek]. 


Some might even insist that Pine Valley is no longer unique because it's been imitated by World Woods et al.


Great courses establish a character of their own:  Yale and NGLA feel very different, even though most of the holes are quite similar.  Ruling out everything built by most architects, because they built other courses in a similar style, leaves only architects who never built anything else and who no one wanted to imitate.  At the same time, singling out NGLA or Yale [or one of mine over another] seems entirely subjective to me.
Tom,


With all due respect to Ally, I wouldn’t put too much weight on a golf course being “truly unique”. As you suggest, there are only a few.


To me, your Doak Scale is more important: most people can’t see all the courses worth playing, so some guidance on which are most worthy of traveling to see helps a lot.



Tim Weiman

Andrew Harvie

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2020, 04:06:10 PM »

Truly unique courses are hard to come by, but I'd mention Kenora, a Stanley Thompson/Robert Moote in Ontario. It is genuinely unique and I've yet to find anything remotely similar from Stan.

Dinosaur Trail in Alberta is absolutely unique, but perhaps not in a good way.


I had never heard of either of these.  Had I known about Dinosaur Trail, I surely would have visited when I was in Alberta a few years ago for The Confidential Guide.  What's unique about Kenora though?  Their web site doesn't make it obvious.


Dinosaur Trail is one of the weirdest golf courses in the country. The original 9 hole front nine is pretty awful, while the back nine plays through the Badlands and is insane. It's unique for sure. You'd never forget it.


As for Kenora, the use of bedrock and the Canadian Shield makes it really interesting, and actually provides some interesting contours. I've attached some photos below. In your guide, Tom, this would be one that you'd need someone to show you around. The contours are so extreme that there's a handful of blind holes, but it's a cool golf course. Riley Johns really likes it, if I remember correctly.


4th hole approach:





Par 5, 8th fairway. The green is tucked in a valley beyond the hillside.





Par 4, 9th tee shot. Uphill, blind dogleg right:





Looking back at the 9th. The hole goes up and then back down to the green. I can't decide if it's a good or bad hole, but it's one I'll never forget.





The approach to the par 4, 11th, with some bedrock showing:





Ian Andrew had also mentioned to me that Braeside in Montreal is unique. I had asked him what's a course that embodied the principals of The Old Course in Canada, and the only one he could think of is Braeside, so that's pretty interesting.
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

SL_Solow

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2020, 04:28:37 PM »
I suspect that "uniqueness" is sometimes an ephemeral concept.  When Sunningdale Old was first built it was likely deemed unique.  Now one of the comments in this thread compares the heathland courses which are generally viewed as variations on a theme..  When the National was built, it was unique but now the plethora of template courses leave it original but not unique.  Similarly the first routing with returning nines.  Absent a special landform which requires a truly creative use, it is likely that the only courses that remain unique (and unique does not equal good) are those that subsequent architects do not want to copy/adapt.  Accordingly, I am more interested in originality either in concept or adaptation than I am in uniqueness.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 06:55:19 PM by SL_Solow »

ward peyronnin

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2020, 07:26:06 PM »
I have not played Cullen but have seen the whole course on an NLU tourist sauce.
I have played many of the unique courses mentioned here but this nine hole gem seems truly different to me
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Kalen Braley

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2020, 07:33:08 PM »
As long as we're getting an English lesson...

Merriam-Webster has 3 basic meanings for unique:

1)  Being the only one
2)  Being without a like or equal, distinguishable from all others
3)  Unusual

While no doubt even all 7.5+ Billion people on the planet qualify for #1, not so much for 2 or 3.  So perhaps that needs to be clarified in this convo, or even another word used for this exercise.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2020, 09:02:15 PM »
I would support the old routing at The Machrie, don't know how much the new routing culls it into the routine.
The Loop Red/Blue is unique, moreso than the Hixson courses  in eastern Oregon.
The Remarkable Nine, Royal Worlington and Newmarket.
I did not see any mountain courses. If it comes back, then Sagebrush.


I would consider the course in Nepal.


Had considered St Edonoc, also the back 9 at Milton Freewater.
Dinosaur Trail (which I have not seen) seems similar to Fossil Trace and Bully Pulpit (Medora SD).
The Stone Forest complex in Yunnan, China would have been a lock, alas it is NLE.

Mike Baillie

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2020, 09:02:46 PM »
How about The Loop?


In addition to being unique I enjoy the simplicity and brilliance of the layout.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2020, 09:24:56 PM »
How about The Loop?


In addition to being unique I enjoy the simplicity and brilliance of the layout.
beat you to it by less than a minute.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 09:38:33 PM by Pete_Pittock »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2020, 09:32:01 PM »
I have not played Cullen but have seen the whole course on an NLU tourist sauce.
I have played many of the unique courses mentioned here but this nine hole gem seems truly different to me


Cullen is 18 holes - although there is not much more ground than most 9-holers.  It's certainly one of the wildest courses I've seen.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2020, 09:33:51 PM »
I suspect that "uniqueness" is sometimes an ephemeral concept.  When Sunningdale Old was first built it was likely deemed unique.  Now one of the comments in this thread compares the heathland courses which are generally viewed as variations on a theme.


Same for Desert Forest, or, later, Desert Highlands.

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2020, 12:36:38 AM »
I think this place is very unique!!

Braid Hills Golf Club on top of a volcanic upheaval and overlooking the city of Edinburgh, the Forth and East Lothian.

Pictures are a bit wider so toggle left and right to see full view.


DSC01114 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01113 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01104 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01074 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01107 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


Salisbury Crags to the left in background and Aurthur's Seat to the right in Edinburgh, UK.



DSC01102 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


View from green on Braid Hills with East Lothian in the background all the way to North Berwick and North Berwick law volcanic hill!!


DSC01087 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


18th tee!!

DSC01117 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr

« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 12:40:50 AM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Andrew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2020, 01:28:20 AM »
I think this place is very unique!!

Braid Hills Golf Club on top of a volcanic upheaval and overlooking the city of Edinburgh, the Forth and East Lothian.

Pictures are a bit wider so toggle left and right to see full view.


DSC01114 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01113 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01104 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01074 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


DSC01107 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


Salisbury Crags to the left in background and Aurthur's Seat to the right in Edinburgh, UK.



DSC01102 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


View from green on Braid Hills with East Lothian in the background all the way to North Berwick and North Berwick law volcanic hill!!


DSC01087 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


18th tee!!

DSC01117 by Malcolm Mckinnon, on Flickr


That looks really fun!
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2020, 05:43:14 AM »
To clarify the point of the thread:


Every course is unique. That’s what makes golf different.


What I’m looking for are the best courses in the world that standalone in offering something completely different, that refuse to be bracketed with other great (or nearly great) courses in feel or type or style.


As an example, every links course is very different to the next. But quite a few of them fall in to a wide sub-bracket or two. RCD is an outlier due to its vegetation mix, use of blind shots and bunkering. The European is an outlier because it is in essence a modern, inland meld laid out on links land. Its bunkers are also unique. TOC is an outlier.


e.g. Dornoch, Deal, Rye, Silloth, Portrush, Sandwhich etc... all fall in to a bracket for me.


Portmarnock, Troon, Muirfield, Hoylake, Lythym etc... ditto...


Maybe I’m the only one to think of things in the terms above. In which case, please use this thread in any way you would like.




Sean_A

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2020, 06:16:55 AM »
Ally

I think I know where you are coming from. My issue would be is TEC great or nearly great?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeff Schley

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2020, 07:50:40 AM »

The Remarkable Nine, Royal Worlington and Newmarket.

Yeah Pete I thought of that as well. Also I haven't heard it called the Remarkable Nine, only The Sacred Nine.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2020, 07:51:22 AM »
Sean, I think The European is good enough to be in the discussion.


What about somewhere like Myopia Hunt? From photos I’ve seen, it looks (feels?) like no other great course.


I mentioned Walton Heath because its vast openness is the only example I know among the top tier heathlands where there is this huge, common land feel. Hankley gets close and bridges between that feel and the more intimate tree-lined / heath mix that almost all the other top tier courses have. Sunningdale, Swinley, St George’s Hill, the three W’s, Alwoodley, can all be bracketed together.


Ganton is another I’d call out on this thread as being unlike any other.


I think Brancaster and Westward Ho! are the two links courses in England that have such a strong identity that they refuse to be bracketed with others... St. Enodoc gets close as a third perhaps.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 07:54:38 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Richard Fisher

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2020, 09:32:42 AM »
Agree with TD and Ally about RND Westward Ho! and RWN Brancaster. Both unique and (I think, as does Ran) great. Ditto Prestwick. Ditto The Sacred/Remarkable Nine. Or Worly, as we near-locals call it. I have also never seen anywhere else inland quite like Huntercombe.

Bruce Katona

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2020, 10:12:21 AM »
This may be outside the boundary drawn but the original Lido (not quite what exists now) on LI certainly could be added to this list.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2020, 11:46:13 AM »
Ally, I would agree on Myopia, perhaps made unique by all the other courses built in the same era having fallen by the wayside or been remodeled.  You want to be unique? Be patient...... Last over 100 years and chances are pretty good.


Thinking about courses that felt unique to me, could we put Sand Hills in that category?  Yes, there have been links courses and prairie courses, but none with 40 mile unobstructed views?  I haven't played all the copycat courses, but from what I have seen, SH still stands as the best of the bunch.  And SH is perhaps least contrived, which is the key to the whole thing?


RCD inspired similar feelings, and again, it may just be the steeple view as much as anything?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jay Mickle

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2020, 10:35:27 PM »
Giving credit to Mike Strantz for building the highest point on the Atlantic coast from NY to Fl in the creation of Bulls Bay. Reintroducing sandscapes to the Sandhills of NC in producing one of a kind golf at Tobacco Road and envisioning and creating a golf course on extremely rocky and difficult property at Tot Hill Farm. Unique was the talent of Mike Strantz.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Mark Mammel

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2020, 03:06:17 PM »
Hard to leave Askernish off this list. On the island of South Uist, it has magical terrain that starts from an underwhelming first hole below the ridge, slowly heading to the ocean views and spectacular shot selectionsto create a rare experience. Almost no modern maintenance techniques, so greens are slow and rabbit scrapes abound. Big storms may deposit sand from the beach high up onto the course. The playing experience must be something like it was 100 years ago. I can't think of a similar place I have played.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Garland Bayley

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2020, 04:59:42 PM »
Tom,

Why wouldn't Astoria make the truly unique list?

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2020, 05:26:47 PM »
Hard to leave Askernish off this list. On the island of South Uist, it has magical terrain that starts from an underwhelming first hole below the ridge, slowly heading to the ocean views and spectacular shot selectionsto create a rare experience. Almost no modern maintenance techniques, so greens are slow and rabbit scrapes abound. Big storms may deposit sand from the beach high up onto the course. The playing experience must be something like it was 100 years ago. I can't think of a similar place I have played.

I did ponder nominating Askernish but didn’t for Ally’s comment in the OP said “Where if they were to close, something undeniably would be lost?”..... and Askernish did pretty much disappear for a long, long time and it didn’t seem to be missed.
Likely it would be missed if it closed now though.
Atb
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 05:41:54 PM by Thomas Dai »

Brad Tufts

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2020, 05:31:33 PM »
Being a Mass guy, I immediately thought of Myopia, but Essex and Myopia are relatively similar, and from almost exactly the same era.  There are certainly differences between them...Essex has more built-up greens, Myopia is more on-the-ground...etc...but they are from the same era, built by the same social group of people, and a mere 5 miles apart.


My vote for unique in MA is TCC.  It's disguised as your normal parkland style golden age course, but the shots played there are unlike most of the venerable courses in the state.  The greens are sometimes tiny and absurdly sloped, the rough penal, and the shot values are very old-world.  Given that golf has been played at TCC since the 1890s, it makes sense.


Perhaps its a sense of "I haven't seen that before" that comes with many of the approach shots at TCC.  Even at MHC and ECC, many of the shots you have seen/played at the other one.


I'm not familiar enough with the individual hole history at TCC to say, but I'm sure the answer to that feeling is the unique evolution of the holes from primitive to more defined as golf became popular in American golf, then to mature Golden Age with Flynn....and careful stewardship since!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Garland Bayley

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Re: The truly unique golf courses
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2020, 08:35:33 PM »
Although Ally sort of dismisses courses at Bandon in the opening post, it seems to me that he overlooks the uniqueness of Pacific Dunes. 7 par 4s on the front, and only 2 par 4s on the back. Unique holes like 6, 7, and 16. The 9-10 combination. The back to back par 3s 10&11 on the ocean.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne