Maha Napa Resort Development

[William_G]

https://www.doakgolf.com/maha-napa-resort/


interesting

[Mark Kiely]

See reply 65 in this thread:
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,68500.msg1651446.html#msg1651446

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more “complete” golf hole on a virgin site than that last photo shows.


You would have sworn that it had already been built.

[Tom_Doak]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more “complete” golf hole on a virgin site than that last photo shows.


You would have sworn that it had already been built.

That will be the par-3 13th hole [from a much higher tee in the brush].


When I first saw it, I thought there was no way we would get permits in California to set a green in the loop of a creek like that, but I thought it was worth a try.  Amazingly, that hole was not an issue, though I had to revise some others for intermittent streams.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I’m sure it will be spectacular from the high tee. But I sure love the look from that low angle with the creek running down the hill directly behind.


Is the tee on the same orientation?

[Tom_Doak]

I’m sure it will be spectacular from the high tee. But I sure love the look from that low angle with the creek running down the hill directly behind.

Is the tee on the same orientation?

Maybe slightly to the left of this angle.  It's hard to tell because the brush is so thick I can't get to the tee location to see!  There is also another ridge further to the left, an angle that would put the green more across the line of play, but we probably won't build that as access to the tee would be that much more difficult.

[Edward Glidewell]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more “complete” golf hole on a virgin site than that last photo shows.


You would have sworn that it had already been built.

I had the same thought. It honestly looks like a hole is already there and the course just doesn't have much of a maintenance budget.

[Ira Fishman]

Is the tree on the right side of the green site going to remain?


Ira

[Kalen Braley]

For those who don't wanna open the link! 

[Tom_Doak]

Is the tree on the right side of the green site going to remain?

Yes!  We are cutting as few of the oaks as possible, which is one reason I don't think this course will need many bunkers.  But we've asked permission to put a couple of bunkers in the environmental buffer between the stream and the green -- otherwise they will tell us we shouldn't mow it, and golfers will be trampling it looking for their ball.


EDIT - Oh, if you mean the smaller oak in the back right of the green, past the bigger tree, we will probably move that one.  I didn't even remember a tree being there.

[David_Tepper]

Tom D. -

Is there water running in that creek bed all year round or does it dry up in the summer months?

DT

 

[JimB]

Reverse of the original #7 at ANGC or #11 at Valley Club?

[Tom_Doak]

Tom D. -

Is there water running in that creek bed all year round or does it dry up in the summer months?

I took the picture in January three years ago, one of the wettest winters on record.  I was there again last month, in a very dry summer . . . the little creek in the foreground was completely dry, and there was water standing here and there in the bigger creek which wraps around the green.  Normally, the bigger creek runs most of the year.

[Jeff Schley]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more “complete” golf hole on a virgin site than that last photo shows.


You would have sworn that it had already been built.

Yes Ally truly a found greensite!
Looks spectacular. I'm curious what the weather is like there in the summer months? Does it have a microclimate it's own? What is the elevation there?

[Thomas Dai]

https://www.doakgolf.com/maha-napa-resort/
interesting

New website?
atb

[David_Tepper]

 "I'm curious what the weather is like there in the summer months?"


Jeff S. -

It can get very warm there in the summer months. Temps above 100F are not uncommon.

DT

[Tom_Doak]

"I'm curious what the weather is like there in the summer months?"

Jeff S. -

It can get very warm there in the summer months. Temps above 100F are not uncommon.

Lately, the weather in the summer has been "on fire".  That's why I believe that a % of summer visitors may opt to play the front nine one afternoon, and the back nine the next morning, or something like that.

[David_Tepper]

Looks like this project has hit a big bump in the road:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article257093052.html

[Tom_Doak]

Looks like this project has hit a big bump in the road:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/fires/article257093052.html

Indeed.


When they got the letter from the State of California last year that the state was opposed to new development in areas of fire danger, I joked to my client, “Does that mean they’re against residential development in all of California?”, since most of the state was under threat of fire at the time.


I guess they are?

[Joel_Stewart]

This opposition was led by the Center of Biological Diversity which is the same group that tried for years to shut down Sharp Park.  It's a bunch of lawyers who then seek outrageous legal fees for their work even if they lose.  At Sharp Park they lost 14 out of 14 lawsuits including the big Federal case that went to trial but the City of San Francisco (who won) had to pay the legal fees to the tune of about $500,000.


It won't surprise me if they sue the developer for legal fees or the State of California will pay.

[DFarron]

Makes me miss Northern California just a little bit more. Not surprised with the state’s response, that’s why we moved !

[Tom_Doak]

It won't surprise me if they sue the developer for legal fees or the State of California will pay.

I don't know how the developer could be expected to pay . . . they did the Environmental Impact Statement, and Lake County approved it.  I believe the suit was that Lake County had approved it without properly considering the fire danger.  Maybe the state was trying to avoid holding the bag on the legal fees and left it to the County?


I cannot imagine how much $ has gone into this project [designers, planners, lawyers, environmental consultants] to get this result.  It's easily in the eight figures just from the people I can count.  And that's without taking into account the nine figures the client paid to buy the land to do the project!


It should be noted, though, that all of the controversy is about the development, not the golf.  The only problem there is that the expense of building the golf never made any sense unless there was a pretty big development behind it. 

[Tim Leahy]

Local news here in Sacto reported the development was nixed because there was only one way into the project through a canyon and if there was a wild fire, which they have had in the area, the only escape exit could be cut off by fire trapping the residents and preventing any rescue/fire services from getting in or out. The news made it seem like poor planning.

[Tom_Doak]

Local news here in Sacto reported the development was nixed because there was only one way into the project through a canyon and if there was a wild fire, which they have had in the area, the only escape exit could be cut off by fire trapping the residents and preventing any rescue/fire services from getting in or out. The news made it seem like poor planning.

Nearly everywhere in America there are fire codes about having multiple exits in case of fire.  There is a limit to the length of cul de sac roads in a development, precisely for this reason . . . you can only have x number of homes at the end of a dead-end that could be cut off.  This was certainly part of the planning requirements for Maha.



There is only one way into the project, now, but they planned a second entrance road that was part of the first phase of development, and also a back-way-out fire escape that would have crossed the golf course in the valley on the back nine.  So, the local news was not telling the whole truth.

[Lou_Duran]

Was there a back way out of Rustic Canyon?  As I recall, the course served as a great break in the wildfires some 10 years ago.

I'm sure some here remember the Dos Pueblos GC project on a former ARCO oil depot near Santa Barbara that was denied its permits couple decades ago.  It was to be a C & C design with 27 holes, approved by county authorities but successfully appealed to overturn by a number of environmental activists and state regulators (CCC the biggest).  I met with the lawyer putting together the offering package in the mid-1990s and I think he said that they had $3+ Million at that time into the approval process.  I'm not sure how much they had washed down the drain when they finally pulled the plug a few years later, but 8 figures in 2000 dollars total is probably not far off.


And then we wonder why golf in so many parts of the country is so expensive.


Interesting article in the WSJ this morning abut experimenting with goats in Australia as a way to reduce the uncontrolled vegetation that fuels the fires.  Speaking from experience having turned my back on a particularly ornery animal, they have great aim and a very powerful buck.