OT-Putting Take the highest possible line

[Rob Marshall]

On the golf channel they mentioned that JT is trying to take the highest possible line on his putts. Makes sense on the longer putts, the ball is getting closer as it slows down. Trying to die it in on the high side the hole is bigger.


If I remember correctly in a Broadie’s book he said your misses should be equally high and low. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Steve Lang]

   better to be within 2 ft on any side

[Mike Bodo]

Ben Crenshaw was notorious for dying puts into the cup on the high side. He made a living doing that. I tend to favor that strategy, although I am nowhere near as proficient as Crenshaw.

[Pete_Pittock]

More people will underestimate slope than overestimate slope.
More people underestimate the speed of the putt than overestimate putt speed
Both of the above are IMHO.
If I am correct in that, taking the highest possible line is a better option

[David_Tepper]

I would think the more slope the greens have, the more you are better off taking the high line. The greens at AGNC have plenty of slope. Probably not as important on a course with flatter greens.

[Kalen Braley]

I know this has always been the conventional wisdom, but i'll take a 5 foot uphill putt any day over a ticklish 2.5 foot breaking putt down the slope.  IMO, closer isn't always better unless you're damn sure that miss on the high side is gonna be inside the leather...

[mike_beene]

I have been taught by someone who has fed his family on tour that you never miss low. Two footer back beats 5 Footer back. And you make the ones you try to miss high.

[Mark Fedeli]

JT aside, I have a theory that better amateurs miss on the high side more than pros. I'd love to see actual numbers on it.


I think pros are trying harder to 'make the putt' than the better amateurs. They also have more confidence in their ability to make the 3-4 foot come-backers. So they might hit it a bit more aggressively with a bit more pace, and thus, are more likely to aim lower and more likely to miss low. Conversely, I think the better ams become a bit more enamored with the read and the higher, more dramatic line, and thus, are more likely to over-read the putt to the high side.


Just a theory.

[archie_struthers]

 




Simple math , high side miss finished towards the hole not away. The faster and more intricate the green tthe more important to miss it high particularly on putts you would be happy with a two putt most of the time.

[Kalen Braley]

Simple math , high side miss finished towards the hole not away. The faster and more intricate the green tthe more important to miss it high particularly on putts you would be happy with a two putt most of the time.

Archie,

I get that, but if your high side miss is 2.5 feet away, with a very ticklish downhill/sidehill putt remaining...vs a 5 footer coming back that's straight up hill, I know which one I would take. 

My reasoning is (assuming a tricky sidehill location), you miss that 2.5 footer, and it runs 7-8 feet past the hole, vs a 5 foot uphill putt which will get away from you next to never.  I guess for me its about making the play to avoid even potentially bigger numbers and as a high capper maybe that's just my mindset, whereas for the better player perhaps its about getting that par at whatever the cost/risk.  And once again, this is assuming the original putt is 30+ feet away and you really need to finesse it, because yes if the original putt is only say 10 feet then that's an entirely different thing.

I think it would be interesting to see some real data/studies on this as opposed to anecdotal thinking.

[archie_struthers]

 


I was fortunate enough to caddy for Ben Crenshaw a bunch of times at PV and he always seemed to miss it on the high side, when he missed that it    Heard Tiger yesterday say that he kept missing it a little high because the greens weren't breaking much yesterday. Intimated that's fine at Augusta.


Seems to me that those two guys putting that way speak volumes. As for the second putt being easier from uphill my experience with all levels of golfer is that the shorter putt even downhill is less stressful, and if you miss high side you get a lot more tap ins. Remember the pressure amps up if you miss a couple so get them as close as possible, at least for me.

[Tim Martin]

I was fortunate enough to caddy for Ben Crenshaw a bunch of times at PV and he always seemed to miss it on the high side, when he missed that it    Heard Tiger yesterday say that he kept missing it a little high because the greens weren't breaking much yesterday. Intimated that's fine at Augusta.


Seems to me that those two guys putting that way speak volumes. As for the second putt being easier from uphill my experience with all levels of golfer is that the shorter putt even downhill is less stressful, and if you miss high side you get a lot more tap ins. Remember the pressure amps up if you miss a couple so get them as close as possible, at least for me.

Archie-How much advice would Ben seek out as far as putts at PV? Thanks.

[Padraig Dooley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXESf5tSF8
I use this clip a lot to show why taking a high line is the best strategy. Side hill putts are both uphill and downhill, if you don't go up enough you go down too much. But if you go up too much, there is still a chance it can go in.

[archie_struthers]

 


Teed it up for me Tim , thanks friend.  Caddied approximately 20 times for Ben at "the Valley" and he may have asked me five or six times for a read as to break, maybe less. However he asked me on almost every hole about the speed , quite telling!

[Tim Martin]

Teed it up for me Tim , thanks friend.  Caddied approximately 20 times for Ben at "the Valley" and he may have asked me five or six times for a read as to break, maybe less. However he asked me on almost every holes about the speed , quite telling!

Archie-To have guided Ben around that many times has got to evoke some special memories. Did you get him on his maiden play?

[archie_struthers]

 


He preceded me there by a couple years.  Remember he was a great amateur and University of Texas NCAA champ.


 My most vivid memory is he hit a wicked slice out of the right bunker on # 2 and got it on the green. He was very humble but was pretty proud of that shot. He could get it going pretty far right at times but had a wonderful disposition and never moaned about it.
 Obviously that golf course was really fun for him as it like Augusta has incredibly complex greens.


The one thing that almost everyone says is what a great guy he is, a true fact. He was just as nice the day he didn't break 80 as he was shooting 69 the next. For the 1981 Open at Merion he and David  Graham practiced there with some Dallas oil barons who were members. Graham was also a Dallas guy and he won the Open that year. Needless to say I was much more fortunate caddying for Gentle Ben  than my fellow looper (Broadway Joe) who had the acerbic Mr Graham !

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dave Stockton once told me that, if nothing else, aim 2.125-4" higher than your read.  We subconsciously line up the ball to the center of the cup, even on breaking putts.  In reality, a breaking putt enters the hole somewhere above the front center point of the 4.25" wide cup, so you can always add at least half the cup diameter to any read, and really, close to all of it, depending on break, ands still maybe "catch the lip."


And, using geometry, it can really be even an inch or so more, not to mention, most ams really under read break by about half.

[Pat Burke]

I used to teach at a 36 hole facility. One of the courses has pretty crazy sloping greens for the speeds the try to produce


In countless rounds and playing lessons, I don’t remember a player that overplayed the break on the putts with more break. I’m sure on subtle breaks, many do, but on the big breakers, when I show players where to aim they look at me like I’m insane....now, I am insane, but a pretty good green reader!

[Michael Felton]

If you always miss putts on the high side and never on the low side, you can't possibly be putting optimally. That said, I do agree that most people under read putts rather than over read them and I do generally think it's a good idea to hit putts closer to dead weight, so taking the highest possible line is probably not a bad idea. If I think a putt is going to break half a ball, I certainly wouldn't add 2 inches to the read so I err on the high side. That's a good way to miss it.

[Tim Martin]

On the golf channel they mentioned that JT is trying to take the highest possible line on his putts. Makes sense on the longer putts, the ball is getting closer as it slows down. Trying to die it in on the high side the hole is bigger.


If I remember correctly in a Broadie’s book he said your misses should be equally high and low. Anyone have any thoughts?

Rob-I am confused with the idea that you should leave putts low as nothing low can go in. While nothing short or low will go in a few high of and hard at the hole will. I guess it’s different for everyone as to what distance you are trying to lag rather than make.

[Pete_Pittock]

On the golf channel they mentioned that JT is trying to take the highest possible line on his putts. Makes sense on the longer putts, the ball is getting closer as it slows down. Trying to die it in on the high side the hole is bigger.


If I remember correctly in a Broadie’s book he said your misses should be equally high and low. Anyone have any thoughts?

Rob-I am confused with the idea that you should leave putts low as nothing low can go in. While nothing short or low will go in a few high of and hard at the hole will. I guess it’s different for everyone as to what distance you are trying to lag rather than make.

If you are putting low, the only ways a putt could go in is too fast a pace or under-reading the slope.

[Rob Marshall]

On the golf channel they mentioned that JT is trying to take the highest possible line on his putts. Makes sense on the longer putts, the ball is getting closer as it slows down. Trying to die it in on the high side the hole is bigger.


If I remember correctly in a Broadie’s book he said your misses should be equally high and low. Anyone have any thoughts?

Rob-I am confused with the idea that you should leave putts low as nothing low can go in. While nothing short or low will go in a few high of and hard at the hole will. I guess it’s different for everyone as to what distance you are trying to lag rather than make.

Tim, I didn’t say that, I believe Broadie said that in his book. I think his point was when you miss a putt you shouldn’t be missing it more one way than the other. I’ll look it up in his book and report back.

[Rob Marshall]

Here you go Tim

From Broadies book

The mysterious case of missing low


The “low” side of the hole is the side with lower elevation, the left side of the hole on a right-to-left-breaking putt, or the right side on a left-to-right-breaking putt. My data show an impressive stat: Amateur golfers miss almost 70% of short putts on the low side of the hole. The proper fraction to miss on the low side should be about 50%. If a guy pees and consistently misses the bowl to the right, wouldn’t he try to adjust his aim to compensate? It’s a skill most males perfect at home, though you might not know it from their performance in public restrooms. If you miss significantly more than 50% of putts on the low side, you are giving away strokes, making a systematic error that will lead to making fewer putts in the long run. It’s often claimed that it is better to miss breaking putts on the “high” or “pro” side of the hole, but that’s not true. Golfers who miss significantly more than 50% of putts on the high side are also giving away strokes, although this affliction affects very few golfers. A useful stat to track is the fraction of makeable putts—say inside of 15 or 20 feet—that you miss on the high side, and the fraction that you miss on the low side. If you miss significantly more than 50% on one side or the other, that is a golden opportunity for improving your putting. To understand why so many golfers miss on the low side, we need to consider the physics of breaking putts.

[Mark Fedeli]

If you always miss putts on the high side and never on the low side, you can't possibly be putting optimally. That said, I do agree that most people under read putts rather than over read them and I do generally think it's a good idea to hit putts closer to dead weight, so taking the highest possible line is probably not a bad idea. If I think a putt is going to break half a ball, I certainly wouldn't add 2 inches to the read so I err on the high side. That's a good way to miss it.

I obviously agree with all of this, but pros miss an incredible amount of putts on the low side, far more than you'd think. At least that's how it appears to me when I watch on TV and when I compare it to my own putting game, which is above average for an amateur. Is there data available about the percentage pros miss low vs high? I've always wondered if they miss low because they are gunning for the hole aggressively more than trying to die it in.

[SL_Solow]

Kalen,  with all due respect, if I have to choose from whom to take putting advice, I'll pick Crenshaw and Woods over you.  I was lucky enough to MC a putting exhibition put on by Ben sometime ago and it was a sight to behold from up close.  The description of him as a terrific guy is absolutely accurate in my experience.  Even better, when he discovered that I was an architecture geek and that I had recently been on a trip to play Hidden Creek and Friar's Head he couldn't help but comparing notes and ideas after the clinic and at the dinner thereafter.  A wonderful experience.  For those doubting his involvement, I can assure you that he knew the courses and their development in detail.