OT - The architectural sleeper hit of the year

[Lou_Duran]

Btw: Lou’s comments are idiotic. What kind of nut case writes a letter to a call girl the next day offering suggestions?

Speaking from experience?  Knowing of your need for attention if not approbation, you would probably have asked for feedback on your performance.  I suspect that you can buy that as well.   Love and kisses.

[Jeff_Brauer]

There was a time when the architectural sleeper hit of the year would actually have had some real railroad sleepers in the design.

[John Kavanaugh]

There was a time when the architectural sleeper hit of the year would actually have had some real railroad sleepers in the design.

Have you lobbied to have “Cowboys” taken off one of your finest designs?

[Lou_Duran]

His MN courses are better.  Jeff shares a common characteristic with Tom Fazio at a fraction of the budget. I've played a large sampling from both and not a one was bad or indifferent.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish Jeff was on the Golf Magazine panel.

[Steve Lang]

  ... meanwhile back at Memorial Park, as Mike mentioned, a pretty good field is expected, ... pressure also on Brooks!


https://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/houston-open/field.html


it was a sunny 73 degF today and should be approaching 80 degrees next weekend and really beautiful, ideal conditions golf weather, so it should be interesting to see among other things at MP:


1) how the new sand capped fairways are presented and used, though much will be flown over, will anyone play to/define conservative positions or attack the course from the start and go really low?
2) where the pins get placed daily in this first tourney,  and where they end up on Sunday?
3) with the fronting pond gone on 6, will the majority go for the avg. mortal's two-shooter green in one and get shuttled towards the gully left by drainage slopes or just bail to short right and short game birdies?
4) whether anyone gets freaked by gully/drainage ditch left on 5, 6, & 7 & 8 green and/or can recover from the edges?  I doubt gully front & right will be issue for any pro on 2, like I've already seen it for some am's in my limited play
5) do they tear up the short par 3's, using their accuracy and mastering the internal green contours, cause they certainly are good at that, even with new hard greens?  I was taught that one shooters are all about accuracy, and most players can relate on par 3's more than reaching par 5's in two...
6) do their short game skills last for 4 rounds?
7) how much business will the sides of 15 see?
how much business will the back of 16 see?
9) who might go for 17 or just aggresively play the old cape style?  This hole is one of my new favs at MP after two plays..


FWIW, MP has always been fun to walk on as a single and meet folks, test the game, and enjoy the walk, even if spoiled at times... with the renovation and PGA returning, life is very good at MP ... Thank You JIm Crane, TD, MN, DM, & crew!   

[Peter Pallotta]

Steve - thanks much for that. That you’re able to ask those questions & do that analysis re: how tour pros will play a golf course that also hosts 60000 average golfers a year is what struck me as so interesting in the first place.

To state the obvious: a much different architectural ‘context’ and ‘setting’ than much of Tom’s other work, as well as that of Mike’s and Don at WP; and a much different set of design challenges than any of them are used to. [Plus: I can think of only a very few courses — eg Bethpage and Pebble and Torrey Pines — that are called upon to serve the same kind/degree of dual purpose.]

All of which is to say: how the team responded to this unique situation, and what kind of invention was made manifest out of necessity, seems to me a kind of gca ‘textbook’ that (because textbooks never make the best seller lists) might be the sleeper hit of the year.

Glad you’re enjoying it and the fine weather.
P

[Sean_A]

Sweet Lou

I am not saying this is true in this case, but often times the context of comments are not fully appreciated. Most of the courses we discuss on this site are anywhere between good and world class. I try to keep this in mind as an unstated starting point.

Ciao

Good advice.  That is one reason I seldom comment in any detail on specific courses here.  A relative few appreciate the frankness and candor of opinion.  It is a universal maxim: who wants to be told that his baby is less than perfect?  And, as they say, beauty is in the eye of a beholder anyways.

I do commend you for your thoughtful and detailed course reviews.  A lot to be said for getting out there intimately with the game and reflecting on the experience.  There is much to enjoy and learn from courses which do not attract the limelight.  That the expectations are probably more realistic makes it easier to remain positive.

Sweet Lou

Cheers. I have been told by a few people, and only a few, that my comments are even handed regardless of course stature.

I think you are right in that people take professional and laymen comments to heart when they are often meant for the head. However, I do have some sympathy for people who's crust can be crumbled by frank commentary and a poorer than hoped for showing in the rankings. That said, a lot of good and sometimes great work which is greatly appreciated runs under the ranking radar.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Interesting read, as a primer to this weeks event...

https://golf.com/travel/houston-open-memorial-park-greens-fee-muni-monday/

P.S.  I hope they can resist raising green fees once the new course is featured in front of a national audience and the course gets swamped for tee time requests...

[Mike Bodo]

I'm excited to watch this tournament to see how the course presents itself on TV and how the pros handle it. I also like it's slot just before this year's Masters. Should be good fun!

[John Kavanaugh]

The hole shown on the commercial leading up to the tournament is an embarrassment for the Doak brand.

[Steve Lang]

JK, you dissing the storm pond ?   How would you handle a foot of rain on a flat site?

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm just commenting on the commercial in a most unfair way. I never cared for the ponds at the Rawls either.

[Kalen Braley]

Viewing the before and after aerial, looks like they reduced the ponds from 5 to 2, and made the pond on 16 and 17 much larger to catch the lions-share of water, which I believe is also supposed to supply nearly all the irrigation water for the course, greatly eliminating the need to rely on city water. 

[Peter Pallotta]

K -
Yes, I’ve forgotten the exact number (maybe 800000 gallons), but the amount of water the new system is designed to collect and store - so as to take the course completely off the municipal water supply — is striking and very cool.
Also very cool: so far the 115 yard Par 3 15th is playing as the 6th hardest hole on the course!

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

Micheal F. posted this on another thread.  Oh my lawd, there is gonna be some howling.

I haven't actually seen it and I don't know anything about it, but the today 389 yard 13th hole at Memorial Park with six groups having played it has yielded a double, a triple and a 10. The 10 was greenside in 2. The triple was also greenside in 2 and included holing a 13 foot putt.

[Kalen Braley]

Who knew the US Open is being played in Houston this year. 

Best in the world are putting up some monster numbers.

https://www.pgatour.com/leaderboard.html

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't stop laughing.

[Mike Bodo]

Wow! The course is holding up rather well, I'd say. Can't attribute the high scores on inclement weather, that's for sure, as conditions were near perfect save for a little wind.

[Pete_Pittock]

Greens seem to be quite a bit smaller than they actually are.  It seemed hole locations were tad on the tough side. But they'll get used to it and got progressively lower.

[Bill Shotzbarger]

It is fun watching these guys struggle!  Highlights from the telecast yesterday were (i) DJ shortsided and trying to flop it from a closely mowed area onto a raised green no more than 10 yards from the hole - ended up blading it to 40 feet, and (ii) Phil driving it in the pond on a par five and trying to take an unplayable because the ball was plugged in the penalty area. 


Looks like some guys are going lower today.


So far the Golf Channel broadcast has talked a lot about the changes, but there have not been any features (that I have seen) and continues to show golf shot, player, etc. Hopefully the weekend focuses more on the course.

[Mike Bodo]

It's been fun seeing balls roll off some of the greens into the various drop-off areas and watching these guys struggle to get up and down. Same with approach shots from missed fairways. The green complexes look great, but are tough if you miss them! Really like the course setup and am looking forward to watching these guys over the weekend. The general consensus among the players seems to be favorable thus far as well.

[Tom_Doak]

K -
Yes, I’ve forgotten the exact number (maybe 800000 gallons), but the amount of water the new system is designed to collect and store - so as to take the course completely off the municipal water supply — is striking and very cool.

My seat-of-the-pants water reclamation saved sixty million gallons of city water compared to last year, though that is probably an exaggerated number because they used more water than normal for grow-in.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter,

Micheal F. posted this on another thread.  Oh my lawd, there is gonna be some howling.

I haven't actually seen it and I don't know anything about it, but the today 389 yard 13th hole at Memorial Park with six groups having played it has yielded a double, a triple and a 10. The 10 was greenside in 2. The triple was also greenside in 2 and included holing a 13 foot putt.

Our Australian friends might notice that hole is a knockoff of the 4th at Woodlands GC in Melbourne.  They built a back tee and played it Thursday-Friday so players wouldn't be driving the green and having to wait on the tee, but this weekend I believe they'll be playing it up at 320 yards as designed.   Very curious to see how they tackle it after some of the big numbers Thursday and Friday.


Thursday, Jordan Spieth had about 75 yards off a perfect tee shot, sitting three under par for the day.  He missed his approach just a little too far right, and yelled "Damn it" when it rolled back off the green.  He made 5 there, followed by bogey at 14 and double at 15 - I think the hole got under his skin.

[Tom_Doak]

Interesting read, as a primer to this weeks event...

https://golf.com/travel/houston-open-memorial-park-greens-fee-muni-monday/

P.S.  I hope they can resist raising green fees once the new course is featured in front of a national audience and the course gets swamped for tee time requests...

They have already raised the rates for golfers from outside Houston, but I don't think they get many.  The place is already swamped - you can make tee times two weeks in advance and they are usually sold out for the next available day by 7:00 am.  But it has always been a popular and busy course.