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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« on: October 15, 2020, 05:32:37 PM »
Nah. I had typed a great long Post, but now realise I’m in the middle of the wildest dream. Can’t wait to wake up!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2020, 06:40:06 PM »
All-righty, then. I’m gonna guess they irrigate it with the de-salinated tears of every gambler who didn’t know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em, know when to walk away, and know when to run...
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2020, 07:13:57 PM »
What's not to like Bonnar!  :D 


 I'd give it a go if I could afford it...



Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2020, 07:54:55 PM »
Shadow Creek is an amazing feat of engineering.  It is set down in the desert and if someone dropped you there blindfolded you would never know you are in the desert.  You can only see the distant mountains inside the golf course.  When I first played it there was nothing but desert around it but now development has surrounded the perimeters though once inside the gates you wouldn't know.  It is amazing what money can buy. 

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2020, 08:57:46 PM »
Shadow Creek captures the essence of 1980s narcissistic excess in much the same way American Psycho does.

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 10:12:14 AM »
I love Shadow Creek. I played there the day I got married in 1998 and have played it nearly a dozen times since. It is a fun place and like Mark said, there was nothing near it when I first played. The growth in Vegas is impressive. Lots of townhomes surround it now among other buildings. Looks to be playing firm and lush like Augusta so it is a good tune-up for the boys. Never turn down a chance to play here.
Mr Hurricane

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 10:26:10 AM »
Jim,
Yes it is special but it has changed a lot from when is was first private.  It is always fun to play there and as I said an amazing feat of design/vision and engineering. 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 11:13:40 AM »
Is it perhaps exactly the sort of course that gives golf and golfers a bad rep from other sections of society?
Atb

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 11:34:55 AM »
I think Shadow Creek is perfect for Las Vegas.  Both phony and insincere.  Both a product of our dreams and an escape from reality.  Both manufactured to capture our imaginations, our hoped-for excesses, not our real life.  They fit each other perfectly!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 11:43:25 AM »
I agree with Jim,

Vegas gets a pass on most everything because it has something for pretty much everyone.  Penny slots to high roller tables.  Free entertainment walking the strip to pricey/flashy shows. Cheap buffets to high end dining. And god knows all the other illicit activity law enforcement turns a blind eye to. So a fabricated golf course in the middle of the desert that costs an arm and leg?  Doesn't even register with the average joe and they likely don't know it exists anyways.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 11:45:28 AM by Kalen Braley »

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 12:04:45 PM »
One more story--which I may have already shared on this site--
I was once fortunate enough to play golf with Sandy Tatum, former USGA Prez and wonderful man.  We played Sand Hills in the morning one July day, and flew to Las Vegas after golf and played Shadow Creek that same afternoon.  Sandy wrote an article about playing the most natural course in America and the most unnatural course in the same day.  I don't think I need to tell you which was which!

Steve Lang

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Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 01:08:48 PM »
 8)  Escape from reality indeed... good reason to play it and enjoy it, like any other golf course.
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 02:02:22 PM »
my favorite Fazio
It's all about the golf!

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 03:53:43 PM »
The first time I played it, it was way out of town. All around the course was dust and desert. Then this green oasis appeared. It is a fairy land. Evidently they have changed the irrigation so they use some 40% less water than before for their 7000 trees and wall to wall grass. It seems excessive, and it is, but it is Las Vegas, which does excessive well.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 04:18:25 PM »
I generally think great golf courses reflect their location.  Shadow Creek does not reflect its natural location but it is perfect for Las Vegas. I greatly enjoyed my experience there. 

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 08:00:42 PM »
It is perfect for Las Vegas and anyone who gets to play it and doesn’t walk away feeling like it was a very special experience are kidding themselves.  Is it an example of extreme excess, of course it is but there so many unique and in cases like this, unbelievable playing venues in the world of golf, if you get the chance to play a course like this just take it in and enjoy it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 08:08:19 PM »
my favorite Fazio


It's the ultimate Tom Fazio design.


I was surprised as heck to hear they were playing the tournament here.


When it originally opened and they were only ever going to host a few rounds per day, I asked my host why they had bothered to build normal sized tees and greens if that was the case.  The fuzzy answer made me realize it wouldn't be that private forever.  ;)  But I did not dream they would host a tournament.  I'm sure they wouldn't have if galleries were allowed.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2020, 08:39:16 PM »
great oasis for birds.
Which reminds me of the hullabaloo over fake bird calls at The Masters, as I watch all the piped in fan noise for sporting events

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 08:20:38 AM »
love it, the ultimate Fazio, the over-seed is lush and the greens are firm, hard to imagine that they took out a ton of trees in 08


https://lasvegassun.com/news/2013/apr/06/jordan-celebrity-invitational-allow-rare-public-gl/



It's all about the golf!

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 10:23:03 AM »
Was a great course, and my round has a great backstory.  Working with Jim Colbert in Vegas, and suggested I wanted to play SC.  A minute later, Colbert's phone rings, it's Steve Wynn, and for some reason, asking how big a driving range had to be.  Jim says he's in luck, his architect is in the car, puts me on, I give an answer, and hand it back to Jim.  He says, "Thanks, Steve and all that good advice will cost you one round of golf at SC."  I played the next day. 


But, it gets better.  As a single, I get paired with an older gentleman, who as it happened, owned the Ross cottage at the time.  And, this was 1995, and I the ASGCA President and planning the next ASGCA Annual meeting for the next spring at Pinehurst, to commemorate our 50th anniversary of the first meeting.  I arranged to have our Ross dinner cocktail party there, and he was more thrilled, I think, to host it than our member.  Anyway, just by chance it was a nice add to that meeting's schedule.


Oh, and the golf course?  I have lots of positive comments, from the best use of distance foolery I can recall, to the fact that, yes, Faz courses cost a lot, but he rarely misses the basics on circulation and drainage, etc.  IF I had a negative comment, it was that all the hole corridors were approximately the same width.  Built and landscaped from scratch, they did have a perfect opportunity to present some greater variety in hole corridor widths.  But, maybe that is just me.


As to those who say it somehow gives golf a bad name, let's face it, someone was going to build the ultimate course somewhere, actually several someones (i.e. ANGC) and as long as there are just a few of those, its really human nature and not a crime against nature.  Not to mention, if any Vegas course "reflected it's site" it would be dirt fw and sand greens, so why bring that up?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 11:57:06 AM »
Jeff,

Good story,  Jim Colbert always seemed like a fun guy to have a few post-round drinks with.

I watched several hours on TV, and its the first time for me seeing the course up close and from lots of angles.  It looks like one of the goals was to have each hole secluded from the rest for effect and perhaps for the game to utilize when the course was first opened.  While I really enjoyed feasting on all the visuals, the concrete work to create the various water features on 17 and 18 seemed to be over-the-top.  I did like the features short and right of the green on the par 3 13th although looks like it would be both a hellish recovery as well as bitch to maintain.

P.S.  After the round one of the players they interviewed, didn't catch the name, said the course is all right out in front of you.  Would you agree with that?

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 12:09:18 PM »
Jeff,

P.S.  After the round one of the players they interviewed, didn't catch the name, said the course is all right out in front of you.  Would you agree with that?


Don't you think that could be said of the vast majority of Fazio's courses?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 12:45:25 PM »
Jeff,

P.S.  After the round one of the players they interviewed, didn't catch the name, said the course is all right out in front of you.  Would you agree with that?


Don't you think that could be said of the vast majority of Fazio's courses?


Good question, I've only played one of them., and didn't think that was necessarily the case.  I was asking Jeff because he mentioned SC has good use of distance foolery, which I wouldn't normally associate with all right out in front of you.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 01:06:09 PM »
Which is worse for golf, Shadow Creek or the course the European Tour plays this week-end (Fairmont St Andrews)?
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Mark_Fine

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Re: Nobody wanna talk about Shadow Cr-EEK!?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2020, 01:19:12 PM »
Good post Jeff.  How many desert courses “reflect” their environment.  I guess we shouldn’t build any golf courses in places like that.  Same goes for bunkers on parkland courses.  Talk about unnatural  :)

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