[Ira Fishman]

We have a terrific new Superintendent. We also have a Membership that seems to think repairing ball marks is too much of a chore. Just finished a round and at least twice it would have been impossible for the golfer not to walk past the ball mark. Any suggestions on how to get people to repair ball marks? The Pro always sends reminders but that has not done the trick.


Thanks,


Ira

[John Kavanaugh]

People in carts rarely walk past their ball marks. People carrying their own bags have difficulty bending over while the bag is still on their shoulder. The only cure is peer pressure within the membership. When you see someone not fixing a mark you need to tell them yourself.


I'm just guessing but it sounds like you may have just let in some members at reduced initiation fees.Those dudes don't come without a price but they usually quit in a few years and go on to the next "deal".

[Bernie Bell]

The woke guys are fighting the groomed and manicured look.  Too Dark Ages.  Although . . . might make a difference if some artisan could offer hand-crafted hickory green tools with bespoke color patterns to match the ferrules and hickory alignment rods.   

[Rob Marshall]

John,
Your 2nd paragraph is spot on. At least at my club.

[John Kavanaugh]

It is well documented that members who pay full boat are less likely to rock it.

[Ira Fishman]

It is well documented that members who pay full boat are less likely to rock it.

That makes sense, but the problem pre-dates any Membership Drive. I guess I was hopeful that with a new Superintendent the practice would change. And if you think it bothers me, you should hear my wife on the topic.


Ira

[Tal Oz]

The woke guys are fighting the groomed and manicured look.  Too Dark Ages.  Although . . . might make a difference if some artisan could offer hand-crafted hickory green tools with bespoke color patterns to match the ferrules and hickory alignment rods.

Bernie, I'll just leave this here
https://shop.acontinuouslean.com/product/divot-repair-widget

[John Kavanaugh]

It is well documented that members who pay full boat are less likely to rock it.

That makes sense, but the problem pre-dates any Membership Drive. I guess I was hopeful that with a new Superintendent the practice would change. And if you think it bothers me, you should hear my wife on the topic.


Ira

If your wife is upset about it you may consider what I have seen work before. You get a number of women in the club to take responsibility for the number of greens that correspond to how many volunteers you garner. Let's say two greens each for 9 separate women, At the end of a determined amount of time the membership votes on which green was kept with the fewest ball marks. The winner then wins an appropriate prize. Once word gets out no one will want to cause undue drama at home.

[Ira Fishman]

It is well documented that members who pay full boat are less likely to rock it.

That makes sense, but the problem pre-dates any Membership Drive. I guess I was hopeful that with a new Superintendent the practice would change. And if you think it bothers me, you should hear my wife on the topic.


Ira

If your wife is upset about it you may consider what I have seen work before. You get a number of women in the club to take responsibility for the number of greens that correspond to how many volunteers you garner. Let's say two greens each for 9 separate women, At the end of a determined amount of time the membership votes on which green was kept with the fewest ball marks. The winner then wins an appropriate prize. Once word gets out no one will want to cause undue drama at home.

Brilliant. Especially given that the women players are significantly better at fixing their and others' ball marks.


Ira

[Bernie Bell]

I got to thinking about this some more.

It seems that the rule of etiquette about repairing ball marks was not enacted until the 1950s (Dark Ages!).  I'm looking back through my Hutchinson, etc., to see if there's mention of it as a Golden Age practice.  What if we did away with the practice as an artifact?

We could be done with our golf faster.  If it takes 15 seconds to repair a ball mark – and longer if you do a Zen job – then over 18 holes you could save 5 minutes per round – more if you’re one of these gardeners who’s in the habit of repairing extra marks.

We could delight in more unfairness.  Do we distort the spirit of the game by sanitizing the greens to the point where they’re true, but entirely dull and predictable?  Is this what we’ve come to expect from watching TV golf?  Is the fetish of true-rolling putts just another pernicious influence of the American emphasis on “fairness” and the card and pencil?  If we stopped repairing ball marks entirely, creating random micro-hummocks, might this not lead to future generations of golfer not expecting such manicured conditions, being more accepting of bad luck and the (literal) rub of the green, and gaining a bit more enlightenment about the game? 

[Jeff_Brauer]

A (former?...I’m afraid to check) superintendent, recently blogged about ball marks.  He located every unrepaired ball mark, and the total count was 326.  Whether that represents either a few days or a month of ball marks, the problem is universal.

[Buck Wolter]

People in carts rarely walk past their ball marks. People carrying their own bags have difficulty bending over while the bag is still on their shoulder. The only cure is peer pressure within the membership. When you see someone not fixing a mark you need to tell them yourself.

Not fixing a ball mark is lazy, who's more likely to be lazy?

[MClutterbuck]

We ask every member to fix their ball mark and one more. This quickly sets the example for the others.


Fixing ball marks does not add to round time if done smartly while you are waiting.


The biggest problem is guys that ride carts, hit it thin into a certain area of the green and walk straight to their ball without caring to notice where they first hit the green. Educate, educate, educate.

[Ira Fishman]

We ask every member to fix their ball mark and one more. This quickly sets the example for the others.


Fixing ball marks does not add to round time if done smartly while you are waiting.


The biggest problem is guys that ride carts, hit it thin into a certain area of the green and walk straight to their ball without caring to notice where they first hit the green. Educate, educate, educate.

A very actionable suggestion. Our Pro is extremely well respected by the regular players. I will suggest this to her.


Thanks,


Ira

[Matt_Cohn]

There are a lot of good articles about “changing social norms“ that relate to this.


Separately, I don’t know if this would work, but what about having the starter tell each group, “We are asking one person in each group to help everyone remember to fix their ball marks. Who would like to take that role in your group today?”

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ha!


When I was on our club's grounds and greens cte, I wrote a 2-page recommendation on this.
Happy to paste it here....;-)

[Sean_A]

Two things. If your playing partner doesn't fix his mark, fix it for him. Most get the message. Second, the club should assign a hole to each member. If they see an issue, they fix it.

Ciao

[Ira Fishman]

Two things. If your playing partner doesn't fix his mark, fix it for him. Most get the message. Second, the club should assign a hole to each member. If they see an issue, they fix it.

Ciao

My playing partner is almost always my Wife, and as noted above, it ticks her off even more than it does me. She actually carries a ball mark repair tool.


Ira

[Cliff Hamm]

A club I belong to in Florida was having difficulty with people filling divots.  They assigned everyone a hole based on last name.  For example Ace - Best hole 1, Bet - Clark hole 2 and so on.  When playing your assigned hole you were asked to fill a few extra divots. Worked well.  Not only did folks take care of 'their' hole, but it helped raise awareness of the problem. The same could be done for greens...

[Mark Smolens]

When I was in second grade we moved to Phoenix, and my father started playing on Saturday or Sunday morning with some guys from work. He took me along to pull his clubs (for a fabulous fee of $1 and a post-round cheeseburger!). One of his buddies, Mr. Gallagher gave me a quarter for every ball I could find (the oleander bushes at the Biltmore were good for at least two balls every week), and a nickel for every ball mark that I could fix on the greens -- summer golf in AZ was not conducive to making ball marks at Papago and Encanto b/c the Super had those greens playing very, very firm -- limit of five per hole. Created a mindset I guess. I have trouble walking by a ballmark without fixing it.

[Chris Mavros]

I repair every ball mark I see.  Not all that inconvenient and seems to be contagious with those I play with or they have the same habit otherwise. 

[Paul Rudovsky]

Dividing the golfing membership into 18 groups with green assigned to each group (suggested by others) is the only thing I have seen that works...and it works better if there is a "contest" involved.  At the end of there season have the green chair, head pro and green superintendant select the green that they feel was in best condition throughout the season and give a "prize" to the members of that group.  $ and prizes work!!  and from what I have seen the diligent members will continue to fix all 18 greens...and most of the others will at least work on their one green...which is much better than working on NONE.  In the big picture, cost of prizes is peanuts.

[William_G]

I repair every ball mark I see.  Not all that inconvenient and seems to be contagious with those I play with or they have the same habit otherwise.

+1


can't speak for all the others who leave ball marks everywhere, or broken tees everywhere as well

[Thomas Dai]

Yet another reason for firm putting surfaces (and the ground game in general).
atb

[SL_Solow]

Ira,  Keep fighting the good fight.   I have been on our committee foe 28 years and served as chair.  Same roles for our regional association which has its own agronomist and and the superintendents confirm that they all have similar problems.  Even my Dad was a greens chair at his clubs and we had a problem in the 70's.  The problem is universal.  We have implemented every one of the suggestions made here and they help, but the problem persists,  Some of us will play a late round and spend as much time fixing marks as playing.  You just have to keep working at it understanding that the problem won't go away.  For the classicists think of Sisyphus.

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