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Rob Marshall

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Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« on: August 12, 2020, 08:35:23 PM »
I’m playing the Park Club in Buffalo this week. I don’t think I’ve played and courses designed by Colt & Alison. Any particulate design aspects to look for?
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 10:34:33 AM »
The first thing to note is that Park Club is a solo Alison design, as were all the American courses done in the 20s. Colt never returned to North America after World War One.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

John Blain

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 10:38:05 AM »
Rob-
Here is a good article from LINKS magazine about Harry Colt and his design philosophy. I played Park a couple of years ago, right after they had finished their restoration and I really liked it. In the Buffalo market it's sort of been in the shadow of CCB and Crag Burn. I'm not really into clubhouses but their clubhouse is spectacular! I remember quite a few greens being on the floor of the course so you had many options coming into the greens. I think you'll enjoy it.


 [size=78%]https://www.linksmagazine.com/the_essential_harry_s_colt/[/size]


John

John Blain

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 10:42:15 AM »
The first thing to note is that Park Club is a solo Alison design, as were all the American courses done in the 20s. Colt never returned to North America after World War One.
Sorry, Rob. I think Adam posted this right as I hit send!  I still think you will enjoy the story on Colt and the course as well.
Be well.
John

Ryan Taylor

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 01:46:25 PM »
I’m playing the Park Club in Buffalo this week. I don’t think I’ve played and courses designed by Colt & Alison. Any particulate design aspects to look for?

I would encourage you to read the course by country reviews on Milwaukee CC and Orchard Lake CC. (Two (2) of my favorite Alison designs) Ran does a nice job highlighting Alison design characteristics.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 02:54:42 PM »

He is one of my favorite architects.  That linked article gives his (and the best) argument for not building wild contours in at least most greens:


Colt tended not to build wild greens. “The majority of players,” he wrote, “desire to hole out in two putts on each green if they are putting well. They desire to experience some little difficulty in doing so, because otherwise they would derive no pleasure from success. Therefore a perfectly flat green would not satisfy them. On the other hand, when they have avoided the bunkers of the fairway…and have played their ball on to the putting green, they do not like to find it is lying in a severe form of hazard.”
[/size]
In other words, defending par at the green is really a strategy reducer, not enhancer.  (MY words now) a gently rolling green is the perfect proportional punishment/reward in most cases - the closer you hit it to the pin, the more likely you are to 1 or 2 putt, and the further away you are, the more likely you are to 3 or 4 putt.  I don't think there is any gca value in trying to create 5 putt scenarios.

More on topic, I went to Niagara Falls with the wife last year, and considered some course tours.  Now I wish I had seen this one.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ryan Taylor

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2020, 03:00:53 PM »

He is one of my favorite architects.  That linked article gives his (and the best) argument for not building wild contours in at least most greens:


Colt tended not to build wild greens. “The majority of players,” he wrote, “desire to hole out in two putts on each green if they are putting well. They desire to experience some little difficulty in doing so, because otherwise they would derive no pleasure from success. Therefore a perfectly flat green would not satisfy them. On the other hand, when they have avoided the bunkers of the fairway…and have played their ball on to the putting green, they do not like to find it is lying in a severe form of hazard.”
[/size]
In other words, defending par at the green is really a strategy reducer, not enhancer.  (MY words now) a gently rolling green is the perfect proportional punishment/reward in most cases - the closer you hit it to the pin, the more likely you are to 1 or 2 putt, and the further away you are, the more likely you are to 3 or 4 putt.  I don't think there is any gca value in trying to create 5 putt scenarios.

More on topic, I went to Niagara Falls with the wife last year, and considered some course tours.  Now I wish I had seen this one.

Park Club in Buffalo is an Alison not a Colt.
"Bandon is like Chamonix for skiers or the North Shore of Oahu for surfers,” Rogers said. “It is where those who really care end up."

Brad Steven

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2020, 03:19:25 PM »
I’m playing the Park Club in Buffalo this week. I don’t think I’ve played and courses designed by Colt & Alison. Any particulate design aspects to look for?

I would encourage you to read the course by country reviews on Milwaukee CC and Orchard Lake CC. (Two (2) of my favorite Alison designs) Ran does a nice job highlighting Alison design characteristics.


Let me add Kirtland Country Club in Cleveland to the list of Alison gems ... also reviewed by Ran here.  Alison built big, brawny greens complexes at Kirtland and managed to hide subtle but significant green-wide slopes on several holes that inevitably leave players scratching their heads ... hopefully you'll like the Park Club.

Joe Zucker

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2020, 03:34:19 PM »
Another Colt and Alison in the Cleveland area is Westwood Country Club on the west side of town.  It does not come close to equaling Kirtland, but it does have some nice holes that play through and across a valley in the middle of the property.  Unfortunately the north and west sides of the property are extremely flat, so holes 1-2 and 8-13 lack character.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2020, 05:25:29 PM »
Rob, I'm your guy. I played Park in high school, as it was our home course. The course was touched up by Ian Andrew a few years ago, with bunker refinements, tie-ins from greens to tees, and return of short-grass chipping areas around the greens. The course sits below Sheridan Drive, a busy, east-west thoroughfare that shuttle folks from the inner belt to the outer belt. When on the course, it's as if the traffic didn't exist.


The first hole is an easy par five, with a good drive. Without one, you might press and make 6 or 7. Two used to play as a five, but is now a long four. Downhill, dogleg right, to a receptive green. Three is a dogleg left par four, and four is the opposite, same par. Both are mid-length, and prefer accuracy on drive over length.


Five is a cool par three. Long, water right, room left to bail out. Six doglegs back to the left, outside the fourth hole's dogleg. 1 plays along a ridge, 2 drops down, and 3 through 6 play in a flat, lower area.


Seven is a straight four, the rises to a green in a hillside. Cool hole. Eight is a short par three that plays at a diagonal to the green. Nine is a picturesque five that runs parallel to one, but is a much better hole.


Back nine opens with an uphill par three, over sand, to a large green. You will have longer clubs into it and 12, which is the longest four on the course. In between is 11, a long par five, that doglegs slightly left (12 returns next to it, doglegging slightly right). Thirteen is a pitch of a par three, a gentle drop shot. Don't be short or long.


The 14-15 sequence shows how back-to-back short fours can delight or devour a golfer. 14 runs up a hill, to the left, with a blind tee ball. Rely on your host to give you the line. 15 drops down off the rise, into an Eden along the east-bordering creek. Hybrid off both tees will serve you well.


The finishing stretch is arduous. 16 is a long, flat par four, with loads of interest along the way. 17 is short on the card, but plays uphill and 30 yards longer. Really well-protected green. 18 is the members' delight. I'll say nothing about it now.


Feel free to dm me if you need my phone number for any other questions. I love the place.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Andrew Harvie

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2020, 07:45:04 PM »
The back nine is really quite good. I love the front too, but reminded me a lot of Kirtland where at the 9th it really starts to get great
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

Rob Marshall

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2020, 08:45:29 PM »
Thanks guys, looking forward too it.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Rob Marshall

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 07:21:14 PM »
Ron, what a great course to play in high school. Really a fun course.  I think I could play there every day. The run off areas that blended right into the next tees looked great. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before. The course was in perfect condition. The bunkers were very similar to what Ian did last year at my club. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a green like 15 that dropped off at the rear like that.  Two of the guys I was with hit good shots in and ended up 10 yards over. That really took us by surprise. I thought 5 was a great par three. Your hole descriptions were spot on. Thanks for the insight.


I really liked how the creek wound thru the property and it had some sneaky elevation changes. Great setting to have lunch on the patio and settle up. Really a wonderful club.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Colt & Alison Park Club in Buffalo
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2020, 03:50:39 PM »
I was a muni kid growing up. The first time I walked down the footpath, between pro shop and clubhouse, and saw 18 green, I thought that I had entered a magical realm. Golf would never again be the same. Of course, the older kids took it all in stride, but I stopped and tried to catch my breath.


Here's a story that will be with me forever. We scrubs were sitting behind the 18th green, watching the varsity guys come in. Tight match, against our rival. #1 and #2 from each squad were the last to come in. We saw 3 golfers in the fairway, but the #1 from my school, Amherst Central, was nowhere in sight. Back then, the left rough was populated by rotten trees. All at once, we heard a thunderous noise, followed by grass, earth, tree roots, and a few rodents, soaring toward the sky. A ball overtook all of them, scratched the underbelly of the clouds, and alighted with grace of a dancer, three feet from the hole.


From the trees, strode the great man, Ken Riter. We watched the shoulders of both opponents slump simultaneously. Our two guys nodded at each other; the match was won. As he strode toward the creek, and then onto the green, to put to bed the birdie all knew was inevitable, we knew who we wanted to be, who we dreamed to be, and what we would work to be, over the next four years.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 03:52:48 PM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!