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Joe Hancock

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2020, 10:51:51 PM »
Just had my first real chance to watch any play in this US Am. I am very proud of what we did in preparation for this event. DMK could have asked any number of others to do this work, but I’m so grateful he gave me this opportunity. I have to admit I had a big grin on my face as I saw how those bunkers have weathered and found their way in the landscape.


As far as those questions about how the changes has affected play, I will gladly defer to Sven, who has more interest and experience in those dynamics than anyone else I know.



" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

William_G

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2020, 11:21:41 PM »
the best thing here is that Bandon has many options for all shots


lots of options, 60 degree or 8 iron or putter, left or right or right


ride the wind or kill it into the wind


tight lie, bare, or lush


moving on
It's all about the golf!

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2020, 12:31:07 AM »
Grey -


I had to laugh when one of the announcers disagreed with Strafaci's use of putter from the left side of 9 green.  He got up and down with it for birdie to win the hole, yet Notah or Justin or whoever it was adamantly claimed it should have been a chip.


Cardinal rule in the bunkers out here is if a player thinks they can get an 8-iron out, you hand them a pitching wedge.  The only thing Gupta couldn't do on 18 (other than hit it in the ravine) was leave it in the bunker.  He was 235 out.  He could have hit it 60 yards and still had a reasonable chance of getting close on the next shot.  A disappointing end to what was quickly becoming a very compelling match.


As for 15, Strafaci and Sharpstene would both probably have ended up in the bunker in its old location.  One wonders if their scores would have been different.  For anyone who played the old version of the hole and ended up in the DA, I'm sure you wanted to see these guys try that shot.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Kalen Braley

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2020, 12:50:42 PM »
I'm curious how many X's every day resort players take on 15?  Seeing group after group of extremely good golfers struggle on that hole, must be a nightmare for the average joe..


P.S.  I was wondering about that front bunker, looks like it was in fact moved to the right..

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2020, 01:17:22 PM »
Kalen:
There was a long time caddie out here named Ray B.  Ray used to be John Candy's caddie down at Bel Air a long time ago.

A few years ago a number of us were asked to describe how to play some of the blowup holes out here.  14 at Trails, 6 at Pac, 12 at Old Mac, etc.

Here is Ray's write-up for 15 at Bandon:

"I think the best way to play this hole is to play it short.  I used front yardage +10 for elevation and total of the wind gust.  A cut shot to the left edge of the green or whatever shot to get there."

Ray passed away a few years ago and we miss him dearly.

The four guys who played the hole yesterday each made a series of compounding errors.

Gupta - He hit a good shot but had too much club, can't fault him too much for that as it was a slight miss and at that point in the match he had to be aggressive.  They reworked the left side of the green a few years ago, first removing the mounds that used to sometimes direct shots back on to the green and second putting new turf on the runout to the back hazard.  That runout is now pretty quick and anything getting towards back half of the green distance is really going to take off.  He was luck to win the hole after his second.  He had just watched Strafaci putt his 4th shot up onto the green.  Why wouldn't he just do the same thing and lie two.  Instead he got too cute with a wedge, and almost gave away the match right there.

Strafaci - Just had to much cut on his tee ball, which got eaten up into the light onshore breeze.  The skinny wedge from in front of the green was not a good shot, especially because of the tightness of the lies down there.  With the pin in the back left, he should have had enough room to have tried to bump something into the top of the hill and tumble on to the green.  But as is the norm with these guys, they go to wedge whenever they think they should.

Osborne - Just a horrible tee ball.  The fact that he was still in the hole after the drop is amazing.  The announcers really showed their lack of knowledge of the course when one of them claimed his direct line back drop would be 180 yards away.  He dropped in light rough, and hit another horrible shot up to the green.  Even though it was blind, he had a ton of green to work with and should have known that missing to the right was not going to be good.

Sharpstene - Another weak tee ball.  In the light holding breeze yesterday this wasn't that hard a shot.  Anywhere on the green short of the pin would have been fine, even short left would have been okay.  The rest of the hole for him was a mess.

Two years ago in a match, another caddie had a 25 handicap lay up on this hole and putt up onto the green.  His four with a stroke won the hole.  He would have won it on gross against all four of these guys yesterday.

Sven

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2020, 09:04:17 PM »
if memory serves me right I picked Bandon Dunes 15 as the par 3 I would gladly card a bogey w/o playing the hole.  Same idea would have held true on BD5 before much of the gorse was removed.  My idea of playing the hole was to get the ball in the middle of the fairway at the throat and pitch and run the rest of the hole when the N or NW wind was up.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #106 on: August 16, 2020, 09:16:11 PM »
Sven,

Thanks for the explanation, its no doubt a ball buster of a hole.  In my 4+ of watching days of groups coming thru I can only recall 1 player losing the hole by making bogey 4. 

P.S.  If Strafaci ends up making the Tour, he'll be putting Ben Crane on notice for slowest player. Its a great match, but jeez....

John Kirk

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #107 on: August 16, 2020, 10:05:59 PM »
I've got Strafaci as being faster than Gupta.  Yesterday's semifinal was very deliberate.

Currently, I'm watching the 35th hole, and no winner has been determined.  Of these two players, I think Osborne has the better chance to be a solid pro player.

Regarding the 15th hole, I hadn't noticed until yesterday that they had moved the bunker on #15.  I'm not sure I'm happy about it.  I really liked it in its previous size and position.

Sven, I thought I saw an extra green out on the back nine, from an aerial shot.  Is that right?  If so, what is the purpose of the extra green?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 10:08:37 PM by John Kirk »

JLahrman

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #108 on: August 16, 2020, 10:46:13 PM »
Sven, just curious, have most of the players stuck around for a few days to play the other courses?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #109 on: August 16, 2020, 11:07:20 PM »
Very compellimg event.
prime time, great course, great scenery, variable conditions.
Such a contrast to the (often)cookie cutter weekly PGA Tour product.
Congrats to Bandon



"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #110 on: August 16, 2020, 11:25:15 PM »

Sven, I thought I saw an extra green out on the back nine, from an aerial shot.  Is that right?  If so, what is the purpose of the extra green?


John,


There's an old practice green that they still maintain on the right side of 10.  Was that it?


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #111 on: August 16, 2020, 11:26:52 PM »
Sven, just curious, have most of the players stuck around for a few days to play the other courses?


Not sure.  We were out of town until yesterday and today was my first day back to work.


Would like to think they might, but the USGA bubble that was implemented around Bandon and Trails might have made it tough.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Peter Flory

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2020, 02:52:11 AM »
That is the most US Am coverage I've ever watched.  Definitely due to the course. 

Thomas Dai

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #113 on: August 17, 2020, 06:46:18 AM »
Here in 30 mins are the highlights of the Final including some footage of the course - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ISJLEJ7SUYg
Atb

archie_struthers

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #114 on: August 17, 2020, 08:29:02 AM »
 ;D


Hey guys got a question. It was foggy but the turf appeared dry . The guys were hitting irons to the last hole ?


Is it really 585 yards ?

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #115 on: August 17, 2020, 09:02:10 AM »
;D


Hey guys got a question. It was foggy but the turf appeared dry . The guys were hitting irons to the last hole ?


Is it really 585 yards ?


The yardage was 566 yards yesterday.  It was a little downwind.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Eric Johnson

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #116 on: August 17, 2020, 09:19:08 AM »

Sven, I thought I saw an extra green out on the back nine, from an aerial shot.  Is that right?  If so, what is the purpose of the extra green?


John,


There's an old practice green that they still maintain on the right side of 10.  Was that it?


Sven


May have been the green nursery east of 11 green surrounds?

archie_struthers

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #117 on: August 17, 2020, 10:01:23 AM »
 ???


Does it play short (18) ?


I know all these young guys bomb it but it looked like Strafaci hit 4-iron into the green


Pretty good match for sure

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #118 on: August 17, 2020, 10:05:20 AM »
3 iron Arch...245 to the hole but 225 in the air. 320 off the tee but downwind and with some roll, not sure of any elevation change.


Neither shot seemed particularly long to me.

archie_struthers

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #119 on: August 17, 2020, 10:21:39 AM »
 8) 8)




Thanks Sully




He hit two great long irons late in the match

JLahrman

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #120 on: August 17, 2020, 10:27:58 AM »
???


Does it play short (18) ?


I know all these young guys bomb it but it looked like Strafaci hit 4-iron into the green


Pretty good match for sure



A bit of fog and rain isn't going to keep the ball from running out. All depends on the wind. They had some good summer wind going earlier this week which makes 18 at BD play into the wind. The guys had no hope of getting there in two (not sure what the yardage was). I've been to Bandon twice in March and had winter wind both times. I played 18 at maybe 550 and remember getting there with driver 6-iron. I'm longish but certainly nothing like the US Am players.

John Kirk

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #121 on: August 17, 2020, 10:57:28 AM »

Sven, I thought I saw an extra green out on the back nine, from an aerial shot.  Is that right?  If so, what is the purpose of the extra green?


John,


There's an old practice green that they still maintain on the right side of 10.  Was that it?


Sven

Sven and Eric,


Thanks for the responses.  Either one of those explanations may be right.  I just noticed an extra green out there somewhere on the back nine, one I had not noticed before.

Great event.


 

Kalen Braley

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #122 on: August 17, 2020, 11:06:41 AM »

Sven, I thought I saw an extra green out on the back nine, from an aerial shot.  Is that right?  If so, what is the purpose of the extra green?


John,


There's an old practice green that they still maintain on the right side of 10.  Was that it?


Sven

Sven and Eric,


Thanks for the responses.  Either one of those explanations may be right.  I just noticed an extra green out there somewhere on the back nine, one I had not noticed before.

Great event.


There are actually 2.  One just north of the 10th hole and the nursery green east of 11.  Noticed it on the coverage as well and confirmed on Google Earth..


John,


I wouldn't be surprised if Gupta is the slower player and I may not have noticed it as much on Saturday as they were going back and forth between the two matches. Either way Ozzy didn't look none too happy with Scarface's very slow play yesterday...

jeffwarne

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #123 on: August 17, 2020, 11:43:31 AM »
;D


Hey guys got a question. It was foggy but the turf appeared dry . The guys were hitting irons to the last hole ?


Is it really 585 yards ?


Have you not been paying attention? :)
I watched 5 foot 6 ,55 year old Scott Parel hit wedges to nearly every single 490ish par 4 yesterday at Firestone(a lot was because the turf was lively as it obviously was at Bandon)
Remember that long irons have rebounding faces as well so that adds to their "athleticism"
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Alex Miller

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Re: Men's US Amateur Bandon Dunes
« Reply #124 on: August 17, 2020, 12:34:00 PM »
Just had my first real chance to watch any play in this US Am. I am very proud of what we did in preparation for this event. DMK could have asked any number of others to do this work, but I’m so grateful he gave me this opportunity. I have to admit I had a big grin on my face as I saw how those bunkers have weathered and found their way in the landscape.


As far as those questions about how the changes has affected play, I will gladly defer to Sven, who has more interest and experience in those dynamics than anyone else I know.


Joe, Bandon really presented wonderfully on television and the evolution of the bunkering and course itself really really made me want to get back out there. I had in the past been surprised when friends had told me Bandon was their favorite course at the property but seeing it now (it's been 5 years since I've been) the case is more than understandable now. This was a fun, flexible set up that created exciting match play and asked players to hit a variety of shots and tested their whole game!

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