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Rob Marshall

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Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2020, 12:01:12 PM »
Probably off the topic but....Did anyone notice that the commentators mentioned numerous times that the only guys on the leaderboard were bombers? Can a Cory Pavin or a Tom Kite ever win a Major again? They never could have hit that shot.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2020, 12:07:16 PM »
Rob...there are no average, or short hitters by 1985 standards...but, CM gets about 165mph ball speed. That is very pedestrian today.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2020, 12:08:18 PM »
Otherwise, you get down to Berger, Kisner and Todd in the high teens or 20th.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2020, 12:19:26 PM »
I'd have to agree Colin is no long bomber at this point in his career.

Ranks 107th for Driving Distance at 295. Puts him squarely in the bottom half on Tour.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 12:21:35 PM by Kalen Braley »

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2020, 12:37:31 PM »
I'd have to agree Colin is no long bomber at this point in his career.

Ranks 107th for Driving Distance at 295. Puts him squarely in the bottom half on Tour.
I like the decision to put the tee up and give a guy with an average drive distance a chance for an eagle if he can fade it in there. Colin did it and kudos for his balls in doing so as he had a 1 stroke lead at the time. I personally was surprised he gave it a go adn didn't lay up.  If he hits it into the cypress trees and has to chip out of misses the green with his approach and bogey's the hole I think we are looking at a playoff and Van De Velde like decision perhaps. Why risk going for the green?  Because if you pull it off you are hoisting a Wanamaker Trophy.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2020, 12:39:33 PM »
I'd have to agree Colin is no long bomber at this point in his career.

Ranks 107th for Driving Distance at 295. Puts him squarely in the bottom half on Tour.


He also ranks 16 or 17 in stokes gained off the tee.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2020, 01:07:25 PM »
I'd have to agree Colin is no long bomber at this point in his career.

Ranks 107th for Driving Distance at 295. Puts him squarely in the bottom half on Tour.

He also ranks 16 or 17 in stokes gained off the tee.


Correct and he's 3rd overall on SG: Tee to green.

As well as 25th in driving accuracy.

Based on the formula for 'SG: Off the tee', it would seem he plays the harder holes better than most in that he's still hitting driver while others use irons or woods to find the fairway. So it seems to show his relative success on long/difficult holes as opposed to being a consistently long bomber. And Harding Park had no shortage of those.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2020, 01:11:34 PM »
One thing Winged Foot West and most other U.S. major championship venues don’t have is a shortish/drivable par 4 late in the round that created the level of excitement of that at Harding Park. The only ones I can think of are Oakmont 17, Oak Hill East 14 and Chambers Bay 12. Chambers Bay is early enough on the inward holes for players in contention to bounce back from a bogey.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2020, 01:57:35 PM »
From pgatour.com:

2. STRAIGHT KNOCKER: Morikawa led the field in driving accuracy, hitting 39 of 56 fairways. That was two more than anyone else in the field. He hit the short grass 70% of the time, while the field only hit the fairway half the time.
Morikawa is the first player since 2010 to win a major while leading the field in driving accuracy. Louis Oosthuizen did it in the 2010 Open Championship at St. Andrews, though those fairways were just a little wider than TPC Harding Park’s.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2020, 02:18:13 PM »
I was really surprised at how few players were hitting fairways.  This was the PGA which isn't the US Open where it is typical for fairways to be extremely narrow with deep rough.  What are the numbers for fairways hit by leader versus field in a typical tour event? 

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2020, 03:22:03 PM »
Be fascinating how Calvin Peete in his prime but using modern balls and equipment, would have got on this past week at HP. Many a lofted hybrid for approach shots I’m sure but the FIR, GIR numbers and overall scoring would have been interesting. Merely pondering.
Atb

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2020, 03:39:20 PM »
Be fascinating how Calvin Peete in his prime but using modern balls and equipment, would have got on this past week at HP. Many a lofted hybrid for approach shots I’m sure but the FIR, GIR numbers and overall scoring would have been interesting. Merely pondering.
Atb
Peete was a legend as was Mike "Radar" Reid.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2020, 03:49:22 PM »
Be fascinating how Calvin Peete in his prime but using modern balls and equipment, would have got on this past week at HP. Many a lofted hybrid for approach shots I’m sure but the FIR, GIR numbers and overall scoring would have been interesting. Merely pondering.
Atb
Peete was a legend as was Mike "Radar" Reid.


Or Fred Funk -- eight PGA Tour wins including a Players and a handful of top 10s in majors, plus a US Senior Open win.


I have to say, Harding Park reminded me of a US Open Course -- narrowed fairways, thick, lush rough -- without the severe and fast greens of, say, an Oakmont or Winged Foot. Andy North observed early on that it was a course where a lot of putts could be made, so it didn't surprise me that a guy who was accurate off the tee and got his putter hot on the weekend won the championship.

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2020, 03:58:22 PM »
Be fascinating how Calvin Peete in his prime but using modern balls and equipment, would have got on this past week at HP. Many a lofted hybrid for approach shots I’m sure but the FIR, GIR numbers and overall scoring would have been interesting. Merely pondering.
Atb


What a great ball striker. Peete did not even start playing golf until he was older than the "young guns" and won more tournaments than most of them have so far. No Majors, but a Tournament Players Championship. He led tour in Driving Accuracy for ten straight years.


Ira



Ira
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 04:12:21 PM by Ira Fishman »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2020, 05:47:30 PM »
Rob...there are no average, or short hitters by 1985 standards...but, CM gets about 165mph ball speed. That is very pedestrian today.


Agreed.
Morikawa is no bomber compared to his bombing peers.


i would strongly disagree that Pavin or Kite could not have hit that shot .IF you adjust for equipment.
It was 294 yards! which is the 1985 equivalant of about 245.(and that's using a very conservative 10%)
many weren't even using driver on 16 to go for it.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 05:58:08 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2020, 05:49:42 PM »
Be fascinating how Calvin Peete in his prime but using modern balls and equipment, would have got on this past week at HP. Many a lofted hybrid for approach shots I’m sure but the FIR, GIR numbers and overall scoring would have been interesting. Merely pondering.
Atb


What a great ball striker. Peete did not even start playing golf until he was older than the "young guns" and won more tournaments than most of them have so far. No Majors, but a Tournament Players Championship. He led tour in Driving Accuracy for ten straight years.


Ira



Ira


Peete was a migrant worker. Came thru Rochester NY and played his first round at Genesse Valley. A county course here. He was great player.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:37:50 PM by Rob Marshall »
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2020, 05:57:15 PM »
In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near that close.


But, on further review:


a.  It was a 295-yard drive, which anybody in the field can do these days, and is right in Collin's normal range, and
b.  It was a baby fade, which is his go-to shot


My guess is if you sent him back to the tee for a one hole playoff, and he had to hit the shot 100 times, he hits it on the green 40-50% of the time, and right around the green another 40-50% of the time.  He might only hit it inside ten feet once or twice, but is that skill, or is that just kind of random at the end of a 295-yard drive?


I would take the under on 100 balls "40-50%" on the green ALL day long for anyone in the field.(including Morikawa)
Heck these guys barely hit 50% of fairways, and he has to get the distance right, both short and long being in play, to say nothing of right or left...and predict the bounce.


He stood on that tee with a one shot lead and I told my son "this is the shot of the tournament right here"(I wasn't predicting the outcome)
It would've been a great shot on a 250 plus par 3 as well.
That hole demonstrated why DJ and Morikawa both have one major each......(though DJ did hole out once it was clear he could not win) To be fair it was a harder shot for DJ because driver was way too much, the same as several other bombers.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 06:27:41 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2020, 05:59:00 PM »
How many of the guys who had eagles were in contention for the lead and had that kind of pressure to deal with?


There is no comparison of playing a round and playing a round when in contention for the win in a major - a lot of guys took a long time learning how to do that including Tom Watson and Phil Mickelson.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2020, 06:21:55 PM »
...
My hats off to him, its easily the shot of the year.
...

Why isn't the hole out with the wedge that gave him the lead the shot of the year?

Moe Norman claimed he could hit a barber pole 250 yards out with driver more often than someone could sink a 100 ft putt.

The pitch shot had to fly the exactly right distance, have the right velocity, have the right spin, and the right direction to account for any break.

The drive only needed to travel the reasonably correct direction and distance to get into a circle with a 16 foot diameter. Wasn't even the best effort of the day.


How many other chips were made yesterday?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2020, 06:44:45 PM »

i would strongly disagree that Pavin or Kite could not have hit that shot .IF you adjust for equipment
It was 294 yards! which is the 1985 equivalant of about 245.(and that's using a very conservative 10%)
many weren't even using driver on 16 to go for it.


Um, math check - that's 20% not ten.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2020, 06:54:15 PM »


I would take the under on 100 balls "40-50%" on the green ALL day long for anyone in the field.(including Morikawa)
Heck these guys barely hit 50% of fairways, and he has to get the distance right, both short and long being in play, to say nothing of right or left...and predict the bounce.


He stood on that tee with a one shot lead and I told my son "this is the shot of the tournament right here"(I wasn't predicting the outcome)
It would've been a great shot on a 250 plus par 3 as well.
That hole demonstrated why DJ and Morikawa both have one major each......(though DJ did hole out once it was clear he could not win) To be fair it was a harder shot for DJ because driver was way too much, the same as several other bombers.


Your last point was one of my thoughts, too. These drivable par-4's are often awkward for the bombers because they don't have a club for the distance, and they have to try to manufacture a shot for the situation.


Morikawa, as noted above, averages 295 yards, and they had the tee markers set at 295 (!). Perfect yardage for him, as the pros often say about shorter shots.  If they let him tee off from where he wanted, he probably would have picked right there.


It's still not an easy shot, but easy to see why he had confidence to hit it.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2020, 06:58:54 PM »

i would strongly disagree that Pavin or Kite could not have hit that shot .IF you adjust for equipment
It was 294 yards! which is the 1985 equivalant of about 245.(and that's using a very conservative 10%)
many weren't even using driver on 16 to go for it.


Um, math check - that's 20% not ten.


ha! It is!
It's really more like 15% anyway
Given Tour average went from 260ish to 295ish
and the leader's gone from 278 in 1985 to 323 thanks to Bryson
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2020, 07:31:03 PM »
This is close to the top of the list of all time ridiculous threads. It was a great shot. Period. Most difficult? Hogan at Merion or Tiger at Hazelzine or Augusta or several others. But it was a freaking Great shot. Period.


Ira

David_Tepper

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Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2020, 07:49:08 PM »
I only claimed it was the shot of the year (so far)! ;)