Harding Park

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm with Mark on this one?  Not having been to Harding Park and looking at pictures and video I'm baffled how they could spend 17M
on the Tatum renovation. Perhaps the clubhouse was a huge cost and perhaps someone could weigh in on that aspect of the redo.


It is California though!  Nothing is cheap

There was a lot of dirty money. For example, for the entire time the course was closed, the lost green fees had to be paid to the city in the general fund.  As everyone knows, they had to use the PGA tour architectural services who charged a tremendous amount.  In exchange, Tim Finchem agreed to bring tournaments to the course and they have kept up their part of the deal with the Presidents Cup and a WGC tournament.

[Joel_Stewart]

The course is just okay. The front nine has nothing of architectural interest.


The back nine is above average and a nice walk.

[Thomas Dai]

Appalled yesterday to hear the ignorant announcer on the 1st tee - paraphrasing -
"On the tee the 2018 and 2019 PGA Champion Brooks Koepka. Gap. On the tee the 2019 US Open Champion Gary Woodland. Gap. On the tee from Ireland Shane Lowry." No mention of Shane being 'The Open Champion'.
atb

[Sean_A]

A sense of place must be married to a really good design to make it properly pay off. I have seen nothing in 2 days which has encouraged me to think of Harding as a course I want to play. Meh, its alright.

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

Appalled yesterday to hear the ignorant announcer on the 1st tee - paraphrasing -
"On the tee the 2018 and 2019 PGA Champion Brooks Koepka. Gap. On the tee the 2019 US Open Champion Gary Woodland. Gap. On the tee from Ireland Shane Lowry." No mention of Shane being 'The Open Champion'.
atb

Really???   OPEN CHAMPIONS MATTER!

[William_G]

love the look with no galleries
love the misses off the tee having consequences in the rough without the galleries
would have been a great year for a US Open @ Bandon sans galleries, but the US Men's Am is there next week
Harding Park's beauty really shows without people and crap everywhere, sweet!

[Matt_Cohn]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the bunkers. Usually the sand there is perfect and not difficult to play from. It's strange to see players blading shot after shot and the announcers and Phil saying they have "the least sand of any bunkers ever". I don't know if it's prepared that way on purpose, but it's not like there was bad weather or anything to affect what they were trying to do.

[David Ober]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the bunkers. Usually the sand there is perfect and not difficult to play from. It's strange to see players blading shot after shot and the announcers and Phil saying they have "the least sand of any bunkers ever". I don't know if it's prepared that way on purpose, but it's not like there was bad weather or anything to affect what they were trying to do.

Yeah, Matt, was curious to hear that, wasn't it.


Also, congrats on making it to match play at the Cal Am. Well done. :-)

[Kevin_Reilly]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the bunkers. Usually the sand there is perfect and not difficult to play from. It's strange to see players blading shot after shot and the announcers and Phil saying they have "the least sand of any bunkers ever". I don't know if it's prepared that way on purpose, but it's not like there was bad weather or anything to affect what they were trying to do.

Plus the PGA/USGA etc addresses that in setup...it isn't like the PGA just accepted the bunkers conditions that were there.  I liked seeing it presenting a challenge, especially given the shallow bunker faces.

[Jeff Schley]

Has anyone won a major wearing these? Jason Day and Victor Hovland that I have seen this week. Blowing in your hands is like 80's music.


Also on hole 3 yesterday I saw Daniel Berger walk over right next to Jason Day's bag and literally look directly down into it for a few moments to see what club Jason was hitting. I know you can't ask what club someone hit, but typically aren't you supposed to be a little more coy about it?

[jeffwarne]

I can't remember the last major with this much emphasis on working the ball.
Both off the tee and into the greens(which are firm enough and have clever nooks and crannies designed in to tuck pins into.
Amazed how many stubbornly stick to the fade and try to squeeze it down or over a treeline when the hole, terrain(and foliage)make that low percentage.


Hard to believe how many shots are flared right at this level(I resemble that remark)

[Bernie Bell]

"Amazed how many stubbornly stick to the fade and try to squeeze it down or over a treeline when the hole, terrain(and foliage)make that low percentage."

Could be an issue on #18 this evening.

[Phil McDade]

I'm struck by the number of players at the top of the leaderboard who have rounds with significant numbers of non-pars on their scoreboards (Casey's all-par back nine Saturday was something of an outlier). The course seems to yield lots of birdies but has trouble lurking, and all of this without penal features like water or tight OB (for the most part). That strikes me as a good indicator of a solid set-up and decent architecture.

[Kalen Braley]

Given how damp it is in San Francisco, especially in the summer time, the sand would be moist and packed down. I wouldn't be surprised if they're not using sand pros to make them play more difficult. 

Yes, the course is holding up well in terms of where the leaders are relative to par, but they did have to resort to several setup gimmicks to do it.  Fairways narrowed by several yards, long rough, firm bunkers, two converted par 5s, and hole after hole with tucked pins.

[Jeff Schley]

Who is responsible for the course setup for PGA Championships?

Because we don't know their name, maybe that is the reason it is better than the US Open.

[Mark Smolens]

Also don't forget the 9-hole Fleming course was part of the renovation budget.


Good article here on the history of PGA tournament golf at Harding:

https://apnews.com/3b2a8cd82c159297f48eccea1b4cf9fe

Interesting to note that 6 of the 7 winners of the old Lucky International tournament held at Harding in the 1960's are in the World Golf Hall of Fame. The 7th winner was Master champ George Archer. Tiger and Rory have won tournaments at Harding as well.

George Archer with 43 professional wins (19 on Senior Tour) and 1 major isn't in the HoF? Davis Love has 37. Freddie has 64.

[Mark Smolens]

Who is responsible for the course setup for PGA Championships?

Because we don't know their name, maybe that is the reason it is better than the US Open.

Kerry Haig

[Ira Fishman]

I can't remember the last major with this much emphasis on working the ball.
Both off the tee and into the greens(which are firm enough and have clever nooks and crannies designed in to tuck pins into.
Amazed how many stubbornly stick to the fade and try to squeeze it down or over a treeline when the hole, terrain(and foliage)make that low percentage.


Hard to believe how many shots are flared right at this level(I resemble that remark)

+1. Not a dramatic course, but clearly forcing the best of the best to work the ball. Fun to watch.

[Peter Pallotta]

Who is responsible for the course setup for PGA Championships?

Because we don't know their name, maybe that is the reason it is better than the US Open.

I think there is something to this. If there is a 'name' then there is a 'reputation', to promote & protect. And if there is a reputation, it rises and falls based on how well it represents a 'value system'. And if there is a value system it's hierarchical, and has at the top an 'ultimate goal'. And I don't know how one manages to super-impose such on ultimate goal on any field of play/golf course design where the 'quality' is based on *not* proscribing an ultimate goal -- and certainly not one identical to that of the set-up man.

[David_Tepper]

Peter -

While your theory may have some validity, the reality is it is quite widely known that Kerry Haigh has been setting up the courses for the PGA Championship for a good number of years. His is hardly an unknown quantity and his name in relation to the course setup  has been mentioned multiple times by the announcers and players during the broadcast this week.

https://golf.com/news/tournaments/pga-championship-2019-setup-guru-kerry-haigh/

DT
 

[Peter Pallotta]

It's true, David -- but perhaps it's a matter of degrees: eg Jeff didn't know the name and I had to be reminded of it. In any event, it may be that Mr. Haigh will need to watch out for *next year*, now that his name/reputation is so well established!

[Tom_Doak]

The setup this week is just fine, but in truth it would be hard to overcook it on a municipal course - same for Bethpage last year.  It's impossible to take the greens from normal speed to stupid in one week, unless you are intent on killing them.


The tree lines at Harding and the bunkers guarding the opposite front corners of the greens are the primary factors that demand some strategy and shotmaking.

[jeffwarne]

Who is responsible for the course setup for PGA Championships?

Because we don't know their name, maybe that is the reason it is better than the US Open.

Truer words were never spoken.
In my experience, tooting one's own horn tends to make one's voice squeaky...

[Mike Hendren]

[quote author=Sean_A link=topic=68672.msg1647080#msg1647080 date=1596874542.  I have seen nothing in 2 days which has encouraged me to think of Harding as a course I want to play.

Ciao



Ironically I’ve been thinking this is a course I’d enjoy every day from 6200 yards. Disco-free bread and butter golf where I can find it and hit it with abundant  recovery chances and varied interest around if not on the greens. Excellent test of driving the ball without penal results. Not to mention a pleasant walk in the park.


Bogey

[Jason Thurman]

I was just thinking that Harding seems like a really enjoyable place to whack your ball around. Straightforward, sure. But it encourages and rewards good shots. And with everyday rough, it would offer plenty of recovery opportunity. And it seems like it would be a really satisfying place to play a well-played round for yourself.


There's a randomness to the locations of trouble that reminds me of a few good local daily access courses.


It would certainly pass the walk in the park test.