Difficult Courses

[Ira Fishman]

What are the most difficult course you have played and would play them again if you were in the area?


Butler National--No
Congressional Blue--I live 10 minutes away, but No.
Ballybunion Old--Yes.
Nairn--Probably
River Kohler--It would beat the crap out of me, but Yes


Ira

[Andrew Harvie]

What about Congo after Andrew Green's work

[John Kavanaugh]

I prefer über difficult courses for a couple of reasons. I know I'm going to have a bad hole or two so I don't get upset when one comes. After the round when I go in for drinks no one asks me what I shot. They know I might ask back.


Just about anyone who plays their own special set of local rules can fake a great score at an easy course. It absolutely ruins my day having to muster up the courtesy to care.


To answer your question the hardest course I ever played may be Kiawah Island. I won't be going back because I played that day with Mike Vegis and he is dead. I really loved that guy. He told me we played in the strongest wind he had ever seen.

[Jeff Schley]

Good question Ira.

• Royal County Down - probably not until I stop spraying my driver
• PGA West Stadium- yes, plenty of hazards, but I really love the challenge there as you have to concentrate so much on just about every shot.
• Ocean Dunes (King Island, Australia) - NO! Wind combined with blind shots and too tight of fairways (IMO) with heavy native grasses for rough made for a frustrating day.
• Royal St. Georges - yes, just like Deal next door when the wind blows it is very tough and the quirky bounces which don't always reward a well struck shot tests your mental toughness. Frustratingly captivating and beautiful.
• Carnoustie - probably not, there are so many more enjoyable courses up in that area, why punish myself again?

[Ira Fishman]

I need to add one to the OP:


The Island Club--A definite Yes.


Ira

[Pete_Pittock]

Erin Hills     No, and I will be close this August  It is the last 18 hole course I ever walked.

Oakmont  yes
TPC Sawgrass from tips  yes
PGA West likewise no
Spyglass Hill (ala 1965) no


If you factor in conditions 
Crosswater from the tips, wind and temp both in the 30s

[Chris_Blakely]

The Shattuck NH(circa 2000) at the time I played the slope was between 153 and 155.  Forced carries, water, wetlands and rocks abound everywhere.


Wolf Run maybe the year it closed right after club championship.


I would play the Shattuck again(beautiful course and area).


Chris

[Rob Marshall]

Only course would probably be Bethpage Black. Didn’t think it was that hard the year before the first open. Played it again a few years ago. Could care less if I ever saw it again. The Red is another story. Love it.

[Brad Steven]

All from backs. ..


Cog Hill #2 (No, nightmare)
Firestone South (unfortunately yes, I'm a member)
Torrey Pines South (yes, two weeks before '08 US Open, rough was unimaginable)
Kiawah Ocean (yes, played in heavy wind.    Brutal but amazing)
Oakmont (yes but dont love it)
Oakland Hills (no)

[Doug Bolls]

There are 3 courses that really beat me up:


Bethpage Black - I carried my bag on a humid day before the Open - I couldn't get to the greens because of the rough and the greens were difficult putting.


TPC Sawgrass - I was really looking forward to playing there having seen it so many times on TV.  I just couldn't figure out where to hit the ball and ended up hitting into all the wrong places.  So much water!  I even hit it in the water on 17 - imagine!


Whistling Straights - So much SAND.  Very difficult time keeping it in the fairways.  Enjoyed the Irish course and would go back.


A couple years ago I flew to Philly and walked Pine Valley during the Crump Cup - there is no way I have a game for that course.  I think it's the toughest course I've seen.

[Brad Steven]

There are 3 courses that really beat me up:


Bethpage Black - I carried my bag on a humid day before the Open - I couldn't get to the greens because of the rough and the greens were difficult putting.


TPC Sawgrass - I was really looking forward to playing there having seen it so many times on TV.  I just couldn't figure out where to hit the ball and ended up hitting into all the wrong places.  So much water!  I even hit it in the water on 17 - imagine!


Whistling Straights - So much SAND.  Very difficult time keeping it in the fairways.  Enjoyed the Irish course and would go back.


A couple years ago I flew to Philly and walked Pine Valley during the Crump Cup - there is no way I have a game for that course.  I think it's the toughest course I've seen.

Interesting ... i think PV illustrates the need for "slope" vs just course rating more than any course ive ever played ... and number 1 in the world ... because of it or in spite of it?

[Tom Bacsanyi]

True "mountain golf" is hard:


Cordillera Mountain Course (A Hale Irwin Design!) Yes, I would play again to try to avenge my first play, but I live very close by.


Red Sky Ranch Norman Course. Would play again. Front 9 from the tips is a 152 slope, back 9 is much easier. First 4 holes not a gentle handshake but a swift kick to the nuts. F9 closes with a 559 yard PAR 4 (tips)!


Others:


The Bear, Grand Traverse Resort. I was about a 15 when I played here, now I'm a 3, so not sure if I'd like it better now. Instincts say I would not play again, especially if I could get on some of the other tremendous TC courses.


George Dunne National, Chicago area. Brutal. Would not play again.

[Jeff Evagues]

Oakmont and Sebonack. Would love to play either again.

[Bill Seitz]

Wolf Run - Some holes were just really hard, even if you kept it in play.  I don't think it's possible to play it again.


Oakland Hills South - would definitely play it again, but member/guest conditions were pretty tough.


Kampen (Purdue) - I think I've only ever played it from the tips, and it's hard.  Played it a week or so before the NCAA championships when then sent an email promoting the conditions.  The rough was brutal.  In retrospect, I'm not sure it was a promotion, but rather a warning.


Kiawah Ocean from the tips - Love the course.  Wouldn't play the tips again (did it as part of a match).  Driver - 3W gets old after a while.

[Jon Wiggett]

The Fream Course, Nordcenter in Finland other than that Valderama in Spain from the backs.

[Thomas Dai]

Carnoustie and Royal County Down.
Mind, the tee you have to play from, or are permitted to play from, or your golfing ego/vanity decided to play from, can make quite a difference.
atb

[Richard Fisher]

Twenty-one years ago, back when Golf World was a rather different sort of publication to its current incarnation, GW ran a feature on a 'sadist's summer', pointing out that the three principal R&A championship events of 1999 were going in sequence to Portrush (Amateur), Carnoustie (Open) and Harlech (Boys')  - the three courses it had recently listed as the most difficult in the UK, certainly for handicap golfers.
Carnoustie seems to have retained that pre-eminence, but not sure about the other two - although the blue tee SSS at RStD is now assessed at five over par, at 74.

[Brock Lynch]

Royal Porthcawl...yes


Woodhall Spa...yes


Ganton...yes


Spyglass...yes


TPC Stadium...yes


Sherwood CC...no


 

[Tim Martin]

Wannamoisett-Par 69, 6732 from back tees with a slope of 135 and course rating of 72.8. The outgoing nine is one of the toughest I can think of with the shorter par four holes defended by a wild set of Donald Ross greens. As an aside I had a friend tell me after playing it that he didn’t know what the big deal was about the second hole as he made a five. I told him that he needed to look at the scorecard as par for the hole is four.  

[Joel Pear]

Rich Harvest--Some very quirky holes, but yes, would go back.  It's usually a fun experience, and the car museum is amazing.
Cog Hill #4--Will not go back.  Hate is a strong word, but it definitely comes to mind when I think of Dubs.
Butler National--Very difficult course, but I enjoyed the challenge, and the "Butler Brunch" was great.
Winged Foot--Would definitely go back.  It is Winged Foot after all.
Medinah #3--Sure, if I got an invite.

[Ira Fishman]

Rich Harvest--Some very quirky holes, but yes, would go back.  It's usually a fun experience, and the car museum is amazing.
Cog Hill #4--Will not go back.  Hate is a strong word, but it definitely comes to mind when I think of Dubs.
Butler National--Very difficult course, but I enjoyed the challenge, and the "Butler Brunch" was great.
Winged Foot--Would definitely go back.  It is Winged Foot after all.
Medinah #3--Sure, if I got an invite.

A couple of folks have listed Cog Hill 4. I played it every Saturday for 6 or 7 years in the late 70s and early 80s. That was well before the Rees Jones renovation. I found the course challenging, but not overly difficult. Then again, I was young and a better player then.


Ira

[John Kavanaugh]

Rich Harvest--Some very quirky holes, but yes, would go back.  It's usually a fun experience, and the car museum is amazing.
Cog Hill #4--Will not go back.  Hate is a strong word, but it definitely comes to mind when I think of Dubs.
Butler National--Very difficult course, but I enjoyed the challenge, and the "Butler Brunch" was great.
Winged Foot--Would definitely go back.  It is Winged Foot after all.
Medinah #3--Sure, if I got an invite.

A couple of folks have listed Cog Hill 4. I played it every Saturday for 6 or 7 years in the late 70s and early 80s. That was well before the Rees Jones renovation. I found the course challenging, but not overly difficult. Then again, I was young and a better player then.


Ira

Chicago was as good a golf town as anywhere in the late 70's and early 80's. Jordan came to town and the Golf God's said enough is enough. Has any other golf town fallen so far so quickly?

[Jeff Schley]

Chicago was as good a golf town as anywhere in the late 70's and early 80's. Jordan came to town and the Golf God's said enough is enough. Has any other golf town fallen so far so quickly?

I know you joking, but a case in point.................. Joliet CC closed this winter. 114 year old Bendelow gone.
https://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/joliet-country-club-closes

[John Kavanaugh]

I’m not joking. I was in Chicago for most of 78-88 and considered it the golf capital of the world. Now it’s not top 50.

[Mark_Fine]

Most architects probably cringe at at thread like this.  The far majority design their courses for the majority of playing abilities (at least some golfing ability).  To each his own as far as what they like and don’t like but is it possible some here think the course is too hard because they are playing the wrong tees or they had a tough weather day?  Most of the courses mentioned have teeing areas that are 6000 or less yards long.  Are they still too difficult from these tees?


There is no question many of the courses are brutal from the tips but even take a course like The Ocean Course at Kiawah; you could play that course as short at 5300 yards from the forward tees.  If the course is still too tough from those distances can I suggest golf lessons or pickleball   


It is one thing if a course is boring and/or lacks character and is uninspiring (something less than a Doak 4) but most of the courses mentioned so far in this thread are architecturally significant (some of those mentioned are among the best in the world) and to say one wouldn’t play them again because they are too hard is mind boggling for me considering this is a site for golf architecture enthusiasts.  Those courses deserved to be studied a bit more than one time around from the wrong set of tees or on a challenging day.


I mean this in all due respect, playing the wrong set of tees can really impact ones view of a golf course but that might be grounds for a different thread.