Best 18 Holes Built in the Last 50 Years - Consensus (see p. 6)

[Tom_Doak]

So . . . here is my best attempt to turn the votes received into a golf course, keeping to no more than one hole per architect:


1st - par 4 - Wade Hampton (Fazio)
2nd - par 3 - Lofoten Links (Turner)
3rd - par 4 - Kemper Lakes (Killian & Nugent) - this is just for Jeff B.
4th - par 3 - Sweetens Cove (king / Collins)
5th - par 4 - Wine Valley (Hixson)
6th - par 5 - Shoal Creek (Nicklaus)
7th - par 4 - Ballyneal (Doak)
8th - par 4 - Burnham & Berrow, Channel Course (Hawtree)
9th - par 3 - Erin Hills (Hurdzan / Fry)


10th - no hole selected - see below
11th - par 5 - Tobacco Road (Strantz)
12th - par 5 - Kingsbarns (Phillips)
13th - par 4 - Sand Hollow (Fought / Staples)
14th - par 4 - Chambers Bay (RTJ II)
15th - par 4 - Friars Head (Coore & Crenshaw)
16th - par 4 - Bandon Dunes (Kidd)
17th - par 3 - Ohoopee (Hanse)
18th - par 4 - Cape Wickham (DeVries)


I guess the easiest replacement for a tenth hole is to use the 10th at MPCC Shore (Strantz) and change the 11th to Cabot Links (Whitman), but that would give us three par-5 holes in a row, which is a little much.  Everyone is free to choose their own replacement.

[Jeff Schley]

What a great track. I can see my picks it seems were garden variety and matched with popularity.
I don't see a Pete Dye hole on there?  We got to have Pete.  What is his best 10th hole?
EDIT:
ORWhat is Gil Hanse's best 10th hole and give Pete 17th either TPC Sawgrass or Whistling Straits.

[Tom_Doak]

I don't see a Pete Dye hole on there?  We got to have Pete.  What is his best 10th hole?

I agree that Mr. Dye's work is a glaring omission.


I'm partial to the tenth at The Golf Club, but that was before 1970.  Maybe the 10th at Pete Dye Golf Club?  Not my favorite hole there, but classic Dye.


I looked at using the 17th at TPC -- I haven't been to Ohoopee so I don't know what I'm comparing it to -- but Gil's only nominee for #10 was Craighead in Scotland.  I could also have traded in my own 10th at Rock Creek, but it would also make three par-5's in a row.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

That actually turned out pretty damn fine for a 17 hole course.  Good to see Wine Valley make the course too...

P.S.  In Reply 123, in the section of holes with 4 votes, is that 11th hole for Stranz meant to be MPCC Shore?

[Garland Bayley]

8th at Channel Course is par 3, not par 4.

[Garland Bayley]

... but that would give us three par-5 holes in a row, which is a little much.  ...

What's the big deal with 3 par 5s in a row. If the LPGA can play a course with that configuration, why can't a fictitious course have it?

[Peter Flory]

... but that would give us three par-5 holes in a row, which is a little much.  ...

What's the big deal with 3 par 5s in a row. If the LPGA can play a course with that configuration, why can't a fictitious course have it?

Because we'd have a huge imaginary backup.  Tempers would flare. 

[Garland Bayley]

... but that would give us three par-5 holes in a row, which is a little much.  ...

What's the big deal with 3 par 5s in a row. If the LPGA can play a course with that configuration, why can't a fictitious course have it?

Because we'd have a huge imaginary backup.  Tempers would flare.

Fictitious tempers.

The problem is that Tom is to conventional.

[John Kavanaugh]

The problem is the "feeling" that Strantz needs to be represented on this list.

[Tom_Doak]

8th at Channel Course is par 3, not par 4.

Bummer.  Everyone knows you can't have four par-3's on one nine - especially not with two of them back to back ! 😉

[Garland Bayley]

8th at Channel Course is par 3, not par 4.

Bummer.  Everyone knows you can't have four par-3's on one nine - especially not with two of them back to back ! 😉

If someone were to do that Doak would probably give the course a six at best.

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting. There are 'great' golf courses and 'eclectic' courses and 'ideal' courses. I wonder how many of the architects listed would cite the golf hole listed as one of their best/most favourite.

[Ronald Montesano]

Well, if Mackenzie can forget the 9th hole at Crystal Downs, we can forget the 10th hole in la-la-land.

[Ira Fishman]

For Mr. Dye, I would replace No 9 with his design at River Blackwolf Run.


For Number 10, Steel's at Primland. Very difficult but quite interesting.


Ira

[Tom_Doak]

Well, if Mackenzie can forget the 9th hole at Crystal Downs, we can forget the 10th hole in la-la-land.

The ninth at Erin Hills was originally built as a Bye Hole, so doesn't that mean we skip the tenth?

[Don Mahaffey]

We’re those holes the ones with the most votes? Did you have to eliminate holes with higher vote count to make a “course” and make sure certain architects were listed?  I suppose if I cared that much I’d go back and count them all but my feeling is developing a true consensus course would be very difficult

[Tom_Doak]

We’re those holes the ones with the most votes? Did you have to eliminate holes with higher vote count to make a “course” and make sure certain architects were listed?  I suppose if I cared that much I’d go back and count them all but my feeling is developing a true consensus course would be very difficult

See replies 123-124, at the end of the previous page.  It lists all the holes with 2+ votes, except for a few by the architects who had other holes with 4 votes or more.  I've got all the holes on a spreadsheet, but it is impossible to display here.

[jeffwarne]

So . . . here is my best attempt to turn the votes received into a golf course, keeping to no more than one hole per architect:


1st - par 4 - Wade Hampton (Fazio)
2nd - par 3 - Lofoten Links (Turner)
3rd - par 4 - Kemper Lakes (Killian & Nugent) - this is just for Jeff B.
4th - par 3 - Sweetens Cove (king / Collins)
5th - par 4 - Wine Valley (Hixson)
6th - par 5 - Shoal Creek (Nicklaus)
7th - par 4 - Ballyneal (Doak)
8th - par 4 - Burnham & Berrow, Channel Course (Hawtree)
9th - par 3 - Erin Hills (Hurdzan / Fry)


10th - no hole selected - see below
11th - par 5 - Tobacco Road (Strantz)
12th - par 5 - Kingsbarns (Phillips)
13th - par 4 - Sand Hollow (Fought / Staples)
14th - par 4 - Chambers Bay (RTJ II)
15th - par 4 - Friars Head (Coore & Crenshaw)
16th - par 4 - Bandon Dunes (Kidd)
17th - par 3 - Ohoopee (Hanse)
18th - par 4 - Cape Wickham (DeVries)


I guess the easiest replacement for a tenth hole is to use the 10th at MPCC Shore (Strantz) and change the 11th to Cabot Links (Whitman), but that would give us three par-5 holes in a row, which is a little much.  Everyone is free to choose their own replacement.

Well I'm clearly not qualified to vote having only played 6 of the holes selected(after a strong comeback on the back:))
Must be some really good holes if there's no spot for a Pete Dye hole!


The 9th at Erin Hills? Seriously? What is special about that hole? Lots of great holes out there, but #9?
Isn't that the former bye hole that got shoved in when the Dell hole got bullied out by the blind/quirk police?
yes indeed it was    [size=78%]https://www.morningread.com/news-opinion/feature/2017-12-12/best-hole-at-erin-hills-it-wont-ring-a-bell[/size]

[John Kavanaugh]

Too bad Pete isn't around so him and Mahaffey could debate whose course is most worthy.

[Don Mahaffey]

Too bad Pete isn't around so him and Mahaffey could debate whose course is most worthy.

I wouldn’t be able to put up much of a fight. I’ve tried this exercise a few times - creating a “course” with 18 different designers - and every iteration was different.
I think it’s why whenever anyone tries - like Ran did in GOLF mag - it’s pretty much met with a chorus of boos. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

This is the 2nd time an inferior Nicklaus hole has beat out one from Wolf Point.

I guess I shouldn't have voted for the 6th at Pacific Dunes or I should have visited Ballyneal at some point.
I almost voted for the 4th at Barnbougle so I could vote for Wolf Point #6 but couldn't because of how much I liked Pacific Dunes' 6th.
Peace

[Alex Miller]

Wolf Point Hole 3 is an easy swap to make IMO

[Buck Wolter]

#10 at Gateway National is a cool Foster short Par 4 -- he belongs on the list IMO.


I also liked #10 at Yangtze Dunes in China from OCM (mid-length Par 4)

[Kalen Braley]

This is the 2nd time an inferior Nicklaus hole has beat out one from Wolf Point.

I guess I shouldn't have voted for the 6th at Pacific Dunes or I should have visited Ballyneal at some point.
I almost voted for the 4th at Barnbougle so I could vote for Wolf Point #6 but couldn't because of how much I liked Pacific Dunes' 6th.
Peace

Mike, the one architect thing is problematic.  There are at least 3 holes at Ballyneal I would have voted before most others on my list, not to mention a few others at Pac Dunes and Rock Creek.

[Brian Finn]

There are countless eclectic course threads here, but I could not find one for modern courses, allowing more than one hole per architect.  Perhaps a bit easier to decide on, but still one I would be more interested in seeing.