JK,
I learned a lot from KN, but we (younger staff) used to take various field trips (or to ASGCA meetings) to see how others designed, thinking it would improve our style, with very little of it denting the craniums of the bosses.
In fact, looking back, its why I quit on my 29th birthday to strike out on my own. I was at least respectful enough to move several states away to avoid hurting them, LOL>
Specifically, we went to PGA National, which was the first time I had seen grass bunkers integrated (usually at the front) with sand bunkers, one big shape with half sand half grass. It was pretty cool, but we were designing Mission Dorado in Midland Texas at the time. I drew a grass bunker on the front right of the first hole, and they took it out, saying "We don't do that." There were a few similar incidents, i.e., them always doing 2 mounds behind a green, always placing perimeter mounds on the inside corners/points of green shapes, fw edges, etc. (I played with Pete Dye on an ASGCA meeting, who pointed out that a basically straight edge, rolling up and over the contours was more attractive that always pinching in on the inside curves, making the edge visually level.
Although I had already decided to leave Ken Killian by the point we renovated Desert Rose in Las Vegas, (so I had no hesitation to "try things" on his reputation, LOL, I drew a green with a grass hollow behind it, pushing the standard mounds back 5-10 yards. We stood on the tee, I loved the depth (and the not typical for them uphill chip for shots going long) the client Jim Colbert loved it, and Ken loved it. When we got to the green, Ken through a fit, saying "we always put the mounds next to the green" and demanded it got changed, even though it was good, if not his standard. Colbert decided right then that maybe it would be better if I finished the job without Ken.
So they taught me lots on the engineering side, business side, and some on the design side, but taught some things in negative ways. I always vowed never to get that locked in as I aged, but probably haven't countered the typical aging trend of not liking change as well as I might theoretically have, LOL. Better find a couch for this self analysis, LOL. So, the die was cast.
But, good point, if there is a Killian and Nugent concept I repeat consistently, it's the "Sombrero" or Cowboy hat green, shallow left and right (like a brim, and usually about 50 feet deep) and deep in the middle (at least double the depth) sometimes as an upper shelf, on water carry situations, where the back middle of the green becomes the bail out. The first time I saw it was number 3 at Kemper Lakes, and I have modified my post above as my ninth pick, so good call by you!
