Is the 14th hole at Cypress Point what the 18th wishes it could be?

[Ronald Montesano]

I hadn't watched the flyover of all the holes, until Kalen B. suggested I do so, in a concurrent thread. The bunkers in the sky on 17 look horrible, right there in the middle of the fairway. Yikes. That's not why we're here, though.


14 was the great revelation for me. Is that hole as good on the ground, as it looked on drone? Likewise, is 18 as claustrophobic on the ground as it looked on drone?


14 has the copse of trees on the right, pinching in just enough to hide the green, until you get out left. Just a wondrous hole from beginning to end.


In contrast, I don't see how you get a ball into position to go for the green, unobstructed, on 18.


Both are left to right, sliding holes, but 14 looks much more competent than 18, at first blush.


Let my enlightenment begin.

[Adam Clayman]

14 is a great transition hole. The play is left side, anything right is blind. The pinch created by the trees is unique (until 18) adding great variety.  Its merit lies with the long narrow green. A roller coaster of a ride if you do get above the hole. Also,  14 fairway guides you from distance on a previous hole. I don't recall which, maybe #8?


18 is visually odd off the tee. The trees look practically sideways. There's room but it is a bit of a hit and hope.


17 is a better hole than 14, imo, because you have more options on how to attack it.

[Kalen Braley]

I agree with Adam,

Before playing it, I thought 14 was just a connector hole from the terrific 12-13 to get to the epic 15-17 run, but I was pleasantly surprised in how good it is. I really liked how the bunkers were built into the side of the hill on the left as you approach the green, protecting against a tugged approach shot, and the last 100 yards was a nice intimate setting after spending most of the round prior to that in wide open spaces.

As for 18, if they did some major tree pruning, (emphasis on major), I suspect it would go a long way to returning the hole to original playing intent based on old pics I've seen.  Its an awkward tee shot that requires precise placement to have a clear line to the green.

[Matt_Cohn]

It's an incredible hole. The fairway seems wide as can be, but oh my gosh do you have to hit it on a perfect line and exactly the right distance to have a reasonable approach shot. That approach is semi-blind, uphill, usually into a significant breeze, and you have to hit it straight. The trees are so close on the left side of the green, and right is bad, and long is horrible. You could claim it's the toughest par on the course when it's windy.


To answer the question...hadn't thought about it that way, and I don't hate 18, but yeah, probably.

[Bradley Anderson]

Last February I did a lot of hiking around the Monterey Peninsula and I saw a lot of cypress trees. But none were comparable in terms of venerability to the cypress tree that guards and restricts the approach angle on 14. So, not only did they pick the best land on the entire peninsula to build the worlds most picturesque and amazing golf holes, they also picked the land that had one of the most amazing and oldest cypress trees.
 



You walk inside this sentinel tree and it has multiple trunks.




From the approach



And then on the other side of the fairway you have another amazing multi-trunk cypress tree. How many of these really old multi-trunk cypress trees are on the peninsula and here you have two on one hole! Augusta's Magnolia Lane and the 14th hole approach at Cypress Point are two places in golf where the trees genuinely inspire a sense of awe.




And lets throw in some side hill approach bunkers for good measure, shall we?




Looking back at the greatest approach in golf




From the tee

[Jeff Schley]

Wow Bradley what handy photos, very impressive.

[Mark_Fine]

Anyone familiar with CP knows the 18th isn’t the greatest finishing hole (it didn’t bother Mackenzie as he argued most matches are over before they get to 18 so why waste a great hole that few will get to play).   I personally think he was covering for himself.  But regardless the more you play #18 the more it grows on you as an acceptable finish.  The climax as I said on the other CP thread is 15-17.  After finishing that stretch, it is ok to have a cool down/after glow finish to get back to the clubhouse and reminisce about the round.  At was pointed out, the recent tree work helps but it remains a mostly blind tee shot and needs to be precise to have a clear shot into the green.  Tree haters won’t like holes 14, 17 and 18, especially those who complained about Harbour Town 😊


I think 14 is a great hole but you have to know how to play it.  Those who only get their one magical round there might not appreciate how accurate and well placed that tee shot needs to be otherwise you will have a blocked or near impossible line into the narrow green.


But Cypress Point wasn’t named after the seals you will see on the ocean holes.  It was named after the trees so learn to appreciate them. This includes those on 18 

[Matt_Cohn]

Wow Bradley what handy photos, very impressive.

Can you see them? I cannot.

[Alex Miller]

Wow Bradley what handy photos, very impressive.

Can you see them? I cannot.

Likewise.


Also I agree with Kalen's and Mark's comments.

[Jeff Schley]

Wow Bradley what handy photos, very impressive.

Can you see them? I cannot.

Likewise.


Also I agree with Kalen's and Mark's comments.

Yes yesterday I saw them very clearly.  I see now they aren't viewable.  Weird, really detailed photos too. please bring them back Bradley.

[JC Jones]

The 14th and the 18th share the honor of being 2 of the 3 worst holes on the course.

[Kalen Braley]

The 14th and the 18th share the honor of being 2 of the 3 worst holes on the course.

Provocative, but I would certainly disagree with 14 being in the bottom 3.

Would be an interesting exercise thou to rank both the top and bottom 3 of CPC, or perhaps all the holes from first to last...

[JC Jones]

Top 3 (no order):


5
8
9


Bottom 3 (no order:


14
17
18

[Kalen Braley]

Top 3 (no order):

5
8
9

Bottom 3 (no order:

14
17
18

Hard to argue on the top 3 holes at CPC with so many great ones to pick.

Mine would be: 9, 13, and 16 in no particular order.

Not sure how you could put 17 in the bottom 3 thou.

Mine would be:  1, 10, and 18.

[Mark_Fine]

JC,
Sorry but your best and worst holes are way out of wack.  Actually not even close.  How many times have you played the golf course?  If a lot then I am even more surprised at your two groupings.  I don’t have time for a debate right now but you should rethink your choices. 

[JC Jones]

JC,
Sorry but your best and worst holes are way out of wack.  Actually not even close.  How many times have you played the golf course?  If a lot then I am even more surprised at your two groupings.  I don’t have time for a debate right now but you should rethink your choices.

Oh yeah, good point, Mark.  I'll definitely rethink them.  Thanks for your post.

[Mark_Fine]

JC,
Just back to my computer.  I will acknowledge my post wasn't the best, but I still don't agree at all with your hole selections.  There are lots of great holes at CP but 5 and 8 don't make the top three given what others you have to choose from.  And to put 14 and 17 in the bottom three you lose all your credibility.  Sorry but 14 and 17 are great holes and the more you play them the more you appreciate just how good they are and how they fit perfectly into the round.  #17 is an very strategic risk/reward golf hole and the setting it is in is to die for and so many ways to play it. 14 provides the perfect prelude for two of greatest par threes on the planet and neither 15 or 16 make your top three???  But to each his own.
Mark

[JC Jones]

JC,
Just back to my computer.  I will acknowledge my post wasn't the best, but I still don't agree at all with your hole selections.  There are lots of great holes at CP but 5 and 8 don't make the top three given what others you have to choose from.  And to put 14 and 17 in the bottom three you lose all your credibility.  Sorry but 14 and 17 are great holes and the more you play them the more you appreciate just how good they are and how they fit perfectly into the round.  #17 is an very strategic risk/reward golf hole and the setting it is in is to die for and so many ways to play it. 14 provides the perfect prelude for two of greatest par threes on the planet and neither 15 or 16 make your top three???  But to each his own.
Mark

Super disappointed to have lost my credibility.  Good news is all I have to do is agree with your opinions and I can get it all back

[Mark_Fine]

JC,
Agreeing would help    or maybe trying to explain how 17 for example is one of the worst holes on the course    I am anxious to be educated about that choice. 

[JC Jones]

JC,
Agreeing would help    or maybe trying to explain how 17 for example is one of the worst holes on the course    I am anxious to be educated about that choice.

I would have thought someone who has played CPC as many times as you would have noticed the cypress trees surrounded by bunkers that are consuming 2/3 of the landing area.

[Mark_Fine]

JC,
Did you hit it into those trees when you played there  Maybe you should have laid back so you could hit over them instead.  Or maybe you should have played closer to the cliff so you could avoid them altogether.  Or maybe you should have taken driver and hit it past them to the left so they are out of your way.  Some of the big hitters even try to fly over them.  There are all kinds of options you have off the tee for such a short hole.  A lot of the strategy also depends on the hole location that day.  Also a wedge or lofted iron easily clears those trees if you aren’t too close behind them.  And those bunkers on the right side of the trees save you from a worse fate and unless you are unlucky allow a recovery approach shot to the green. The hole tempts you to hit more club off the tee than maybe you should and those centerline Cypress trees are critical to the strategy.  Depending on the wind and the pin location the hole can play totally differently from one day to the next.  It is an absolute gem and brilliant design.  By the way, the course is named Cypress Point for a reason 😊.

And one more point that it would help for you to agree with me on - broaden your definition of “the landing area”.  It is too narrow 😉

[JC Jones]

Thanks for explaining the genius strategy of hitting shots to avoid trees;  I had not yet thought of that.

[Pete Lavallee]

JC, as the Charlie Harper of GCA, I appreciate your sarcasm, I’m sure you have the good looks and stamina but is it possible you could for once be wrong? In your ideal version of CP #17 would Dr. Mac have felled the trees to allow a more conventional landing area? You don’t piss into the wind and you don’t chop down 100 year old Cypress trees. Please give us your vision of the ideal 17th.

[JC Jones]

JC, as the Charlie Harper of GCA, I appreciate your sarcasm, I’m sure you have the good looks and stamina but is it possible you could for once be wrong? In your ideal version of CP #17 would Dr. Mac have felled the trees to allow a more conventional landing area? You don’t piss into the wind and you don’t chop down 100 year old Cypress trees. Please give us your vision of the ideal 17th.

Is it possible my subjective opinion about a golf hole could be objectively "wrong"?  Surprisingly, no.

[Tim Gallant]

Perhaps the 14th wishes it could be like the 18th:


'I became convinced that any hole warranting warm or acrimonious discussion over a term of years must be 'worth while', otherwise it would be been consigned to oblivion with less comment' - CBM