[George Freeman]

Yesterday I played Kankakee Elks for the second time (w/ GCAer James Rees).  It was even better than I had remembered from my first trip down there a couple years ago.  As has been discussed here ad nauseam, I think it could be REALLY special with some serious tree removal and Lawsonia-like TLC.

Question:
Does Kankakee Elks have the best set of greens in Chicago-land?  (Of course this assumes KE can be considered a "Chicago-land" course, which I will admit is a bit of a stretch.)  It seemed like every hole James and I were saying "this green is so good!"  We both agreed that nearly every green at KE would be the BEST green on the majority of golf courses.

I don't know the answer to my question above.  I haven't played everything in Chicago-land, but I have played Chicago Golf, Shoreacres, Bev, and quite a few more of the notables and I'm not sure any of them have better greens than KE...

[PCCraig]

MAYBE...if it was fully restored? Aren't a lot of the greens still smaller circles in the middle of huge green pads?

[Chris_Blakely]

Every green except green number 5, which the original Langford & Moreau hole was abandoned (and is still there and plays 90 degrees in the opposite direction).

[George Freeman]

MAYBE...if it was fully restored? Aren't a lot of the greens still smaller circles in the middle of huge green pads?

Pat -

While I think there are definitely areas available for green expansion back out to the original pads, the greens in their current iteration are neither small nor oval.  (At least they don't feel oval on the ground.)

The greens remind me a little of Prairie Dunes' greens, just more severe.  Maxwell rolls = Langford waves.

[Jeff Schley]

I have family ties to Kankakee and have been a big proponent of being hopeful that one day they can buy 10 gallons of gas and have a chainsaw party to take down some timber.  I don't know specifically which greens have shrunk/need expansion to get back to original, I do certainly feel a portion has been lost. A few that are pushed up and defined perhaps not, but others yes certainly. I don't play it enough anymore to know how the drainage is there, or have forgotten. Used to alternate between KE and BonVivant with my dad when we would see my grandparents.
My priorities would be:

• tree removal
• bunker redo
• reclaiming green surface

I don't know how their irrigation system is either, so that might be a hidden gremlin we are discounting right now. To be fair to Pat the greens are basically small ovals, I don't know what the average green size space is, but definitely on the smaller size right now.


OMG, I just went on the website and saw quite possibly the worst drone video of a course I have ever seen. Good view of the area and feel for the course. However, there is no sound/music and it is like someone's kid just flew their drone around for 5 minutes with no rhyme or reason across the course wandering around.www.elksgolf627.com/course-flyover-2/

[Bill Seitz]

My priorities would be:

• tree removal
• bunker redo
• reclaiming green surface

Or in this case, largely more of a bunker "do", considering there are like maybe five on the entire course.  Which I suppose is five more than Spring Valley.

[JReese]

As has been discussed previously, KE would greatly benefit from tree removal.  Many of the angles have been lost, forcing most tee shots to be aimed down the middle of the fairway.  Even if they were able to just remove their dead/dying trees there would be a big improvement.


From my amateur POV, the greens/green complexes are what makes the course such a blast to play.  I was shocked looking at the aerials to see how round the greens look....they neither looked nor played that way on the course.  Maybe the severity and boldness of the area surrounding the greens disguised the fact the greens are mostly circular or diverted one's attention.  I cant think of a green that didn't have multiple internal contours along with severe steep drop offs for those missing on the wrong side.  The course was an easy walk (minus a few steep uphill climbs) and the price was right at $20 to walk....I will definitely be back in the near future. 

[Jeff Schley]

My priorities would be:

• tree removal
• bunker redo
• reclaiming green surface

Or in this case, largely more of a bunker "do", considering there are like maybe five on the entire course.  Which I suppose is five more than Spring Valley.

True.  There certainly aren't many, although those that are there are very tired IMO, always seem to find front bunker on 18. I think that shows the charm of this L/M layout as they don't need many, only 1 water hazard as well. The greens are the star for sure. Love to see an Oakmont type covert mission by members there cutting down a tree a night for a couple years.

[Bill Seitz]

only 1 water hazard as well. The greens are the star for sure. Love to see an Oakmont type covert mission by members there cutting down a tree a night for a couple years.

They could certainly get rid of that hazard.  It's not original.  Both 8 and 9 look "new" compared the old aerials.  I like 8, and I wouldn't change much there, but 9 could use some work. 

[Jeff Schley]

I have to think the pond is there to help with drainage. They are selling lots on a small area of the entrance up to the Kankakee river for a few years now.  I hope they can sell them all and invest back into the course.

[George Freeman]

They could certainly get rid of that hazard.  It's not original.  Both 8 and 9 look "new" compared the old aerials.  I like 8, and I wouldn't change much there, but 9 could use some work.

I'm no expert, but 8 and 9 appear to be the original routing.  The holes seem to be in the same spot as a 1953 aerial I saw.  The pond was not present in 1953, however was there in the next available aerial of 1973.  Both holes have the trademark Langford fairway bunkers out in the tree line (left and right on 8; left on 9), which would support the claim that they're original holes.  But I agree with you:  the pond on #9 makes the second half of the hole feel very out of place.

Back to my original question:  Can anyone name a course in Chicago-land with clearly better greens than Kankakee Elks?

[Jeff Schley]

Back to my original question:  Can anyone name a course in Chicago-land with clearly better greens than Kankakee Elks?

Clearly better?  No, not clearly better. They don't even keep the greens that fast at KE either.
Clearly there are some privates which are contenders for the title with KE. Obvious names and haven't seen Beverly after the redo so perhaps they could vault to the top.

[Blake Conant]

My priorities would be:

• tree removal
• bunker redo
• reclaiming green surface

I don't know how their irrigation system is either, so that might be a hidden gremlin we are discounting right now. To be fair to Pat the greens are basically small ovals, I don't know what the average green size space is, but definitely on the smaller size right now.

Bunker redo might be lower on my list of priorities.  That's a big expense and Langford's bunkers do quite well with a grass bottom or sand bottom. 


In order I'd like to see them:


address drainage and remove trees
put back into the play the original 5th
expand greens
expand mowing lines
detail bunkers

[Phil McDade]

George:


Thanks for bringing this back on the radar of GCA -- another under-rated and relatively unknown Langford I've been meaning to play. The flyover drone video makes me cringe -- all those trees just cutting off all those playing angles. Not that what Langford envisioned.


Check out the home page picture of Lawsonia, now nearly treeless (effectively so for playing corridors): [size=78%]https://www.lawsonia.com/the-links[/size]

[Ken Fry]

I've been on a great Langford & Moreau tour this summer.  Played Kankakee Elks and Spring Valley for the first time with another trip around the Langford 9 at Marquette GC.

George, Kankakee could make a case.  The greens are outstanding.  The club has done quite a bit of tree removal on the front nine and it shows with how the course plays.  The back nine is desperately in need of any form of tree removal.  So many of the Langford bunker faces were visible with a forest planted in the middle.

As mentioned, hole #5 is not original but the original green site is still there with talk of resurrecting it.  The fronting left bunker looks very intimidating!

Very similar to Lawsonia, I wish KE was a bit closer.  I'd make the trip down for another play.

Ken

[Peter Flory]

Most of the ones that I would nominate have L&M roots or influence.  KE, Spring Valley, Skokie, Beverly, and Mount Prospect come to my mind as the most exciting greens in the area.  Old Elm's are terrifying, but memorable and varied.  OFCC South has some really cool ones (#1, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, and 11 in particular, but they aren't as consistent due to some borrowed holes from the #2 course and the newly created 3rd.  I've only played it twice since the renovation, but Medinah #2 has some stellar greens as well. 

Since it is so flat here, you have to either have great greens or great bunkering. 

[Bill Seitz]

Back to my original question:  Can anyone name a course in Chicago-land with clearly better greens than Kankakee Elks?

I can't say clearly better because it's been a few years since I played Kankakee, but I played Skokie today, first time since the renovation, and I can't recall playing  better set of greens in Chicago.  Which isn't to say I haven't, but just that I can't recall doing so.  Put those greens on Olympia North and you have Chicago's Oakland Hills.

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