Bandon Trails' and Old MacDonald's Greens

[David Ober]

Got back from my trip to Bandon (awesome time), and had a question about the greens.


Bandon Trails and Bandon Dunes seemed to have very similar greens that have (mostly) gone over to poa. They putted true and ran 10.5ish or a bit faster, maybe.


Sheep Ranch are ... fescue? Very true. Very firm. Very, very slow, which is to be expected because the course is so new.


Pacific Dunes seemed to be ... not sure. Fescue, maybe with lots of sprouting, small patches of poa?


Old MacDonald was maybe the same? Definitely had lots of small weed-looking things in the greens that may, or may not have been poa.


Curious what the long-term plan is for the greens there. Doesn't seem possible to keep the poa out, so curious as to the thought-process.

[Tom_Doak]

Bandon Dunes planted a mix of fescue and colonial bentgrass.


At Pacific Dunes we recommended keeping the colonial bent out of the mix, but in the end we went with what had been successful there [up to that point].


Bandon Trails did the same, but with less colonial bent.


Old Macdonald's greens were planted with pure fescue to start.


The first three courses have mostly gone over to Poa annua now.  Old Mac was still mostly fescue the last time I played it, 18 months ago, but it is not as old, and I wouldn't bet on them holding off the Poa another 5-10 years.  Sounds like they are starting to lose that battle, from your description. 


Even so, Ken Nice feels that fighting off the poa annua for as long as they can is a good fight.  Some poa annua plants are much more drought tolerant than others, so the longer you fight the good fight, the more drought tolerant the poa you wind up with.




Honestly, I don't care so much what grass is on the greens -- I care if the surface is firm and if they are running true.  But I also care if the conditions on the aprons are markedly different than the greens, and that's where having poa or bent, at a higher height of cut, is a clear step backwards from having fescue all the way through.  When the courses opened I could putt from 40-50 yards off the green, without making a significant adjustment for the speed of the apron vs. the speed of the green.

[David Ober]

Bandon Dunes planted a mix of fescue and colonial bentgrass.


At Pacific Dunes we recommended keeping the colonial bent out of the mix, but in the end we went with what had been successful there [up to that point].


Bandon Trails did the same, but with less colonial bent.


Old Macdonald's greens were planted with pure fescue to start.


The first three courses have mostly gone over to Poa annua now.  Old Mac was still mostly fescue the last time I played it, 18 months ago, but it is not as old, and I wouldn't bet on them holding off the Poa another 5-10 years.  Sounds like they are starting to lose that battle, from your description. 


Even so, Ken Nice feels that fighting off the poa annua for as long as they can is a good fight.  Some poa annua plants are much more drought tolerant than others, so the longer you fight the good fight, the more drought tolerant the poa you wind up with.




Honestly, I don't care so much what grass is on the greens -- I care if the surface is firm and if they are running true.  But I also care if the conditions on the aprons are markedly different than the greens, and that's where having poa or bent, at a higher height of cut, is a clear step backwards from having fescue all the way through.  When the courses opened I could putt from 40-50 yards off the green, without making a significant adjustment for the speed of the apron vs. the speed of the green.

Thanks, much, Tom. They putted true(ish) for sure. And I agree with you, I don't care whatsoever as long as greens are true and consistent in firmness, which all the greens are at Bandon. I alternated between putting from off greens and hitting low, checking LW, depending on my mood at the time of the shot. The turf on the courses definitely allowed for a variety of shots to be played.


Definitely want to play both Old Mac and Pac Dunes again, as we got the worst of the wind on both of your courses. Our caddie, Stewart, who's been there 15+ years, said it doesn't get much worse in the summer than the conditions we had. 4-club wind when we were directly into it. Would love to play both of your tracks on a 15mph day to balance out my perspective, since we played Trails and Bandon Dunes in 15 - 20 conditions, only.