Best contrarian ideas in GCA

[archie_struthers]

 


The contrarian in me got going watching Bryson Dechambeau waddle around with all that extra avoirdupois in tow. So of course I've decided to lose thirty lbs. to protect my back and hit it further. As to the topic who would you guys consider the greatest contrarian architect whose golf courses are good?

[Ronald Montesano]

Someone who knows what avoirdupois means, for beginners. Application to idiolect is a bonus.


Got to start with Desmond Muirhead.

[archie_struthers]

 


He's certainly on my list  Ron!


Could Seth Raynor be the very best of all, was he a contrarian?

[Tom_Doak]

Could Seth Raynor be the very best of all, was he a contrarian?

Archie:


You said you were looking for GOOD ideas, so I didn't respond regarding Desmond M.


As for Raynor, I don't know how anyone would draw any conclusions about his personality or philosophy -- I have read very few accounts of the man, apart from C.B. Macdonald's very nice eulogy in his book, only a year or two after Raynor's death.


Labeling him a contrarian now (or not) would be strictly based on hindsight, wouldn't it? 


He certainly wasn't contrary to his mentor's ideas, so if you decide that Raynor was a contrarian, you'd have to say that Macdonald was the real one.  But it's hard to say C.B. was a contrarian when he was one of the founding fathers of the profession, at least in the U.S.A.


P.S.  Not picking on you, I'm just contrary by nature 

[Gib_Papazian]

The person who posed the question is on the short list . . . . . .


Think about how many Tom Doak holes defy the laws of conventional architectural thinking.


This guy is such a self-assured lunatic, he convinced Mike Keiser to sign off on a back nine with exactly two par-4s - one of them the length of a long par-3.


Bill Coore has to be on the same list of maverick contrarians, although we are all gettin' a bit long in the tooth to carry the moniker of enfant terrible.


Maybe the late Mike Stranz . . . . . I guess anybody can go so far off the rails they forge a new path - The Pit (Dan Maples) demonstrated he has a dash of avante garde dadaism in his heart.


But day-in-day-out contrarian dogmatism - including designing a reversible golf course - probably goes to the Travers City Flash.   

[Mike Hendren]

Whatever happened to Jim Engh?  He’s largely ignored on this site.


Bogey

[Troy Miller]

I'd consider what Pete Dye did at Harbor Town some what contrarian for its time.  But I guess the same could be said of every trailblazer of a new era of design from the penal to the strategic, the manufactured to the natural, etc. etc.

[Garland Bayley]

Ross wrote statements criticizing the use of templates. Does that make Ross contrarian, or MacDonald contrarian for using templates?

[John Crowley]

Ross wrote statements criticizing the use of templates. Does that make Ross contrarian, or MacDonald contrarian for using templates?

First question is contrary to what/whom - earlier work or contemporaries work?


If earlier work, certainly not C.B. or Raynor - templates.

[archie_struthers]

 


Not dissuaded by a few pinpricks TD. It's the fun of the exercise.


So Raynor's use of templates wasn't the divergence I was thinking of, more the shapes of the bunkers and features he created. Maybe built is a better word than created. To me the very use of his engineering skills was a divergence from the free flowing designs of the golden age architects.


Some of the bunkers , with step ups geometrical shapes it seems he distanced himself from others. That's the contrarian nature I see in his work. Haven't played enough of his stuff to totally get it, but he's different.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I'm not sure who first graded wall to wall, at least on "typical sites" but that was certainly contrarian thinking to using natural features.  Or the first to build in mountains or the desert, etc.'....... 


All of the early American designers who adapted golf to our natural conditions rather than trying to perfectly copy the seaside courses........or the post WWII who sought to distance themselves from anything old world, and set a whole new style, like RTJ.


The first irrigation system mfg. would be somewhere on the list, as would Brent Wadsworth , who basically invented the modern profession of golf course construction. 


As far as the intent of the question, I agree with perhaps Mike Strantz, and more especially, Pete and Alice who made the entire profession change direction.

[Jeff Schley]

The first irrigation system mfg. would be somewhere on the list, as would Brent Wadsworth , who basically invented the modern profession of golf course construction. 

Brent Wadsworth is from my hometown of Joliet, Ill. What a wonderful human being, who was a tremendously giving philanthropic soul to almost any cause people approached him with.  Joliet was "blue collar" and had a lot of needs, he and his wife Jean said yes to everyone who asked. He was probably tapped too often and some took advantage of his generosity, but he never forgot where he came from.  I think his business was always headquartered in Plainfield, Ill., which isn't exactly a golfing mecca at all.

Great family and he earned the respect of everyone in the community by his actions, not words.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm not sure who first graded wall to wall, at least on "typical sites" but that was certainly contrarian thinking to using natural features.  Or the first to build in mountains or the desert, etc.'....... 

Red Lawrence built both Desert Forest and the University of New Mexico courses incorporating the desert into the design.  Maybe someone else had done so before that, but those were the two courses that were noted for the innovation.


To add to your list, perhaps the first guy to restore a course rather than updating it should get some credit.  Rees Jones likes to take credit for that at Brookline, but considering so much of his other renovation work was "updating", it's hard to say he was a big proponent of restoration.

[Kalen Braley]

Whatever happened to Jim Engh?  He’s largely ignored on this site.

Bogey

Mike,


I'll second this.  I know his courses take a lot of flack here, but I've played several and they are all a ton of fun to play with a lot of unconventional stuff!

[Jeff_Brauer]

The first irrigation system mfg. would be somewhere on the list, as would Brent Wadsworth , who basically invented the modern profession of golf course construction. 

Brent Wadsworth is from my hometown of Joliet, Ill. What a wonderful human being, who was a tremendously giving philanthropic soul to almost any cause people approached him with.  Joliet was "blue collar" and had a lot of needs, he and his wife Jean said yes to everyone who asked. He was probably tapped too often and some took advantage of his generosity, but he never forgot where he came from.  I think his business was always headquartered in Plainfield, Ill., which isn't exactly a golfing mecca at all.

Great family and he earned the respect of everyone in the community by his actions, not words.

Jeff,


An example of why this site needs a "+1" or thumbs up emoji to simplify agreement!


Tom D,


Great examples.  I had forgotten about those, but it's also why I put the guy who had the idea for mass irrigation in there.  Many forget how technology has always affected design.


As to Rees and restoration, if nothing else, he held up the great Jones tradition of marketing his successes, but his Dad was the real pioneer in that.....at least post WWII.

[Tom_Doak]

Whatever happened to Jim Engh?  He’s largely ignored on this site.

By coincidence, there is a long article on Jim Engh in the back of this month's GOLF DIGEST.


Of course, it was GOLF DIGEST's rankings that made him a star.  GOLF and GOLFWEEK did not rate his courses on the same level at all.  His work was truly polarizing, and still is, but the folks at GOLF DIGEST don't seem to recognize that.

[Ronald Montesano]

There is a Desmond Muirhead course about five miles from my house. It is called River Oaks, on Grand Island, and you see the contrarian in the design, but it is a damned fine golf course. If I had the cash flow,or the youth, I would join. Since I have neither, I have to satisfy myself (that sounds bad) with the occasional drive-by.