Rambling Thoughts

[Tom_Doak]

i have owned CB Macdonald's book for 30 or 40 years, and while in self-quarantine this week I decided to read it again.  His last chapter is titled Rambling Thoughts, and to be honest I'm not sure I had dver read it, since it isn't about golf architecture per se.


But it is chock full of wisdom.  Three favorite samples:


"The essence of the game is inequality, as it is in humanity.  The conditions which are meted out to the players, such as inequality of the ground, cannot be governed by a green committee with thr flying divots of the players or their footprints in the bunkers.  Take your medicine where you find it and don't cry."


"The scoring habit of American golfers (ie. keeping score) is a pernicious habit, much to be deplored, and if persisted in will result in the destruction of tge eternal conception of the game in its highest sense". (Mission Accomplished!)


"The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews never attempted to diminate the English.  St Andrews simply said, 'We are going to play the game as handed down to us by our forefathers.  We will tell you how it was handed down, and we will give you our interpretation of the rules and endeavor to convey to you all the spirit of the game, but do as you like, much as we desire to see you play the game that has been played for so many centuries in Scotland.'l

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks Tom,

Playing the odd, playing the like rules!

[Garland Bayley]

Self quarantine? Does that mean you have been exposed?

[Peter Pallotta]

So lovely to read writing from a time when a hard-nosed 'man of the world' would use a phrase like "the eternal conception of the game, in its highest sense" -- certain that such a conception existed, and unashamed to reference it as an ideal.

[Tom_Doak]

Self quarantine? Does that mean you have been exposed?

I was on the road for two weeks, so who knows?  I do not think I have the virus but  I met enough people that I need to be cautious.

[Jerry Kluger]

If I am understanding the statement about keeping score it seems odd to me considering how European golfers felt it was so important to compute one's handicap based purely upon strong play competition rounds. 


His observation about the randomness of the game is certainly something that today's US golfer does not agree with and that especially includes professional golfers. 

[mike_beene]

Odd thought: Medal play scoring blends the round and the course and is relentless, even joyless. Starting anew 18 times is positive and forgiving whether match, stable ford or just playing as it comes. It makes sense to me so that's good enough!

[Sean_A]

So lovely to read writing from a time when a hard-nosed 'man of the world' would use a phrase like "the eternal conception of the game, in its highest sense" -- certain that such a conception existed, and unashamed to reference it as an ideal.

Isn't that something coming from one of golf's biggest whingers of all time.

It's easy to be hard nose about other people when one is filthy rich. Live and let live.

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

Sean - I didn't express myself clearly. What I found lovely is that a very rich old man with a 'proven track record of success' and a more than robust ego and a sometimes hard nosed/dictatorial temperament didn't feel at all like a 'snowflake' for raising, in the context of a mere game, a notion as ethereal and romantic as golf's eternal conception.

[Sean_A]

Sean - I didn't express myself clearly. What I found lovely is that a very rich old man with a 'proven track record of success' and a more than robust ego and a sometimes hard nosed/dictatorial temperament didn't feel at all like a 'snowflake' for raising, in the context of a mere game, a notion as ethereal and romantic as golf's eternal conception.

Pietro

I know what you mean. Just expressing my distaste for CBM.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

If I am understanding the statement about keeping score it seems odd to me considering how European golfers felt it was so important to compute one's handicap based purely upon strong play competition rounds. 

Jerry:


Macdonald's point was that if medal play became the norm it would cause golfers to lise the proper spirit and demand equity for every shot, which is exactly what unfolded here.


In his day your handicap was assigned based on the results of matches against other known players.  He blamed slow play on four ball matches, noting that he and Jim Whigham used to play their regular match in 1:45.

[Peter Flory]

I do think that golf was better when the holes were more epic and it was two players battling for the lowest score on that hole only.  That brings about conditional strategies based on the actions of the other player or what you suspect they might do if you have to play first.  It's a richer game strategy wise and character wise. 

But the best thing about it was that you were a winner about half the time and you always know what you have to do- more similar to tennis.  With medal play, it really is a battle for perfection.  If you're playing in a tournament with 90+ players and they all have similar ability to you, you're really only bound to win once in a decade or so.  You might have your A game and get lucky, but come in 2nd and obsess over some random mistake that you made instead of just feeling satisfaction.  I've played a lot of amateur tournament golf and I really can't remember anyone being overjoyed with the outcome if they didn't win.  That sort of kills the spirit of the game and slowly saps players of joy. 

In tennis, nobody ever wins a match and then obsesses over a double fault that they had in the 2nd set.  It's all water under the bridge.  That is how golf should be as well since it is the ultimate game of mistakes. 

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

Good comments in that last post.  I've only played a few match-play events in my golfing life, but always seemed to have the most fun in that format.

At the pro level, its interesting because the players claim to loathe match play and prefer stroke play, due to the 1 and done nature of it for half the field.  I wonder if they really feel that way, or if the medal play concept has infected their minds in some sort of twisted way.   Or perhaps its pressure from the sponsors/tv people who are against it and its trickled down to them, (which I can at least understand their POV of wanting to have their player get max exposure/ratings).

[Garland Bayley]

i have owned CB Macdonald's book for 30 or 40 years, and while in self-quarantine this week I decided to read it again.  His last chapter is titled Rambling Thoughts, and to be honest I'm not sure I had dver read it, since it isn't about golf architecture per se.


But it is chock full of wisdom.  Three favorite samples:


"The essence of the game is inequality, as it is in humanity.  The conditions which are meted out to the players, such as inequality of the ground, cannot be governed by a green committee with thr flying divots of the players or their footprints in the bunkers.  Take your medicine where you find it and don't cry."


"The scoring habit of American golfers (ie. keeping score) is a pernicious habit, much to be deplored, and if persisted in will result in the destruction of tge eternal conception of the game in its highest sense". (Mission Accomplished!)


...

Interestingly Geoff S quotes these two in Lines of Charm.

[Garland Bayley]

Medal play is done for tournaments because having several players in competition for the title is more interesting than having just two.

Most every tournament begins in earnest with the back nine on Sunday, because that's when you can best forecast probable winners. Until then you mostly just have people grinding over scores.

Match play sets up a new drama with each hole.

[Ken Moum]

Peter,

Good comments in that last post.  I've only played a few match-play events in my golfing life, but always seemed to have the most fun in that format.

At the pro level, its interesting because the players claim to loathe match play and prefer stroke play, due to the 1 and done nature of it for half the field.  I wonder if they really feel that way, or if the medal play concept has infected their minds in some sort of twisted way.   Or perhaps its pressure from the sponsors/tv people who are against it and its trickled down to them, (which I can at least understand their POV of wanting to have their player get max exposure/ratings).

I've played several hundred rounds in match play competition and love it with a passion. But I think the reason I love it is also why so many excellent players hate it.


To win a nine-hole match if you can manage to win three of the first six holes, tie two and lose only one, you get to the seventh tee two up. You will win almost every time if you do that.


18 hole matches are like running a mile vs. 100 meters, but the concept is the same. Win a few holes, hang on and tie several, and you can beat almost anyone.  Now, back when I was playing well enough to high single digits, I beat some younger players who were significantly better than me. In fact I did it in back-to-back City Championship matches one year.


I know it pissed both of them off. Because I put them out of the tournament and ended up in the finals, and if it had been 72-hole medal I'd have had no chance. Even in those matches, I probably had my quota of crappy holes, but losing one hole by three shots is irrelevant.  As an aside, having a very good short game is demoralizing to better players. In one of those matches my opponent said to his friend, "Does he ever miss one of those?" after I hit a chip shot to about six inches.


The fact is that long, really long, stroke play competitions almost always go to the best player.  It's why the USGA clung to its 36-hole playoff for the Open as long  as it did.


Finally, really good players still win most matches...a few years before that I played Curt Byrum in the same tournament, and despite him throwing clubs and swearing a lot, I think he beat me 4 and 3.  Getting him to the 15th was sort of a highlight of my career, however.

[Michael Wolf]

We play a majority of match play at my home club, but I wish we played more no-handicap match play. And I write this as a 10 handicap - I'd get more satisfaction from the once a year I might upset a scratch, playing him/her straight up, than I do now winning (in theory) 50% of my matches. And it would eliminate the constant bickering about handicaps and stroke holes.


Echoing Ken's thoughts in the previous post -  in my younger days, I relished playing matches against heavily favored opponents. It was a psychological boost knowing that every halved hole moved me a step closer to "taking a match across the road" from the 16th green to the 17th tee.


Michael

[Kalen Braley]

Ken,

Excellent stories, and I'd agree that over 4 days, it seems the better golfer (at least for the week) is more likely to be identified thru stroke vs match play.  Being a high capper thou, I certainly enjoy being able to shrug off a triple bogey hole in match play and not let it get me down for the rest of the round.

The way they do it for the PBA sounds both terrific and maddening at the same time.  They start with a field of 64 and do match play with a best of 7 game series format, for each round.  This continues all the way until the final 4 ( sometimes a bonus 5th spot is granted in ladder format).  But at the end, for TV purposes, all the remaining matches are 1 game and done.

So you can afford a few bad games and still prevail thru for almost the entire tournament, but then a serious crap shoot right at the finish that would drive you nuts as a competitor.  I know its not practical for golf, but thought the format was interesting.

[Michael Wolf]

Kalen,


IMO, the PBA format also leads to rampant purse splitting as soon as the prize $ gets high enough.


Michael

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

IMO, the PBA format also leads to rampat purse splitting as soon as the prize $ gets high enough.

Michael

I don't have a problem with that.  The paychecks are so low, most of those guys have second jobs anyways, so good on em for sharing it up among themselves.  And without the NFL and ESPN left with hours of air time on Sundays to fill in, I don't know if the PBA would be on TV anyways.  But i'll admit, I've always enjoyed tuning in and watching them perform in the crucible of hot lights and oil breaking down on the lanes. 

[Tom_Doak]

We play a majority of match play at my home club, but I wish we played more no-handicap match play. And I write this as a 10 handicap - I'd get more satisfaction from the once a year I might upset a scratch, playing him/her straight up, than I do now winning (in theory) 50% of my matches. And it would eliminate the constant bickering about handicaps and stroke holes.

Echoing Ken's thoughts in the previous post -  in my younger days, I relished playing matches against heavily favored opponents. It was a psychological boost knowing that every halved hole moved me a step closer to "taking a match across the road" from the 16th green to the 17th tee.

In his various recaps of memorable golf rounds and events, Macdonald includes several stories of lop-sided matches . . . such as Harold Hilton or Young Tom Morris playing the best ball of three good amateur players, without handicaps.  That sounds way more interesting than watching Hilton give 5 shots a side.


I grew up in NYC and there was a year when the local NBC station had a series of Sports Fantasy segments.  A tennis player wrote in and said he'd like to be up 5-0, 40-love against John McEnroe, and see if he could win the set, and McEnroe agreed to do it.  McEnroe lost one of the first two points and lost the match . . . and was so ticked off he demanded a replay.  Which he also lost in the first two points!

[Ally Mcintosh]

I do think that golf was better when the holes were more epic and it was two players battling for the lowest score on that hole only.  That brings about conditional strategies based on the actions of the other player or what you suspect they might do if you have to play first.  It's a richer game strategy wise and character wise. 

But the best thing about it was that you were a winner about half the time and you always know what you have to do- more similar to tennis.  With medal play, it really is a battle for perfection.  If you're playing in a tournament with 90+ players and they all have similar ability to you, you're really only bound to win once in a decade or so.  You might have your A game and get lucky, but come in 2nd and obsess over some random mistake that you made instead of just feeling satisfaction.  I've played a lot of amateur tournament golf and I really can't remember anyone being overjoyed with the outcome if they didn't win.  That sort of kills the spirit of the game and slowly saps players of joy. 

In tennis, nobody ever wins a match and then obsesses over a double fault that they had in the 2nd set.  It's all water under the bridge.  That is how golf should be as well since it is the ultimate game of mistakes.

This is a great post. Although I play a lot of match play golf - and prefer it - I hadn’t thought of its advantages in such obvious terms before.

[Pat Burke]

Self quarantine? Does that mean you have been exposed?

Hope it’s ok.
Stay safe and healthy

I was on the road for two weeks, so who knows?  I do not think I have the virus but  I met enough people that I need to be cautious.

[Thomas Dai]

Another aspect to consider in relation to matchplay is what happens when the match is over before the 18th green?
When a match finishes well before the 18th green, potentially way out in the country (think out and back courses) it can be a long walk back to the Clubhouse and can also be inconvenient for other folks playing the course too.
Didn’t the RoG used to say something about matches must leave the course on completion? Has this changed?
Atb

[jeffwarne]

We play a majority of match play at my home club, but I wish we played more no-handicap match play. And I write this as a 10 handicap - I'd get more satisfaction from the once a year I might upset a scratch, playing him/her straight up, than I do now winning (in theory) 50% of my matches. And it would eliminate the constant bickering about handicaps and stroke holes.


Echoing Ken's thoughts in the previous post -  in my younger days, I relished playing matches against heavily favored opponents. It was a psychological boost knowing that every halved hole moved me a step closer to "taking a match across the road" from the 16th green to the 17th tee.


Michael

Very interesting comments Michael. I enjoyed Peter's as well.
Michael,
I hate the arbitrary shot ecisions , and unless one is an 18, there is always debate about where shots fall-especially when a clueless hdcp chairman has decided holes  17 and 18 should be the 4 and 2 handicap holes, and  holes 8 and 9 are 3 and 1. Especially useless for anyone who gambles.


As a 10, what would happen if you had a half shot on 16 holes and a full shot on 2 others?
a 9 would get a half on every hole
a one would get a half shot on 2 holes seems a more interesting game with less fighting about shot holes