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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2020, 12:35:29 PM »
100% of the players would be helped if they shorten courses but don't narrow them.


Ok...do it tomorrow.


What does the USGA have to do with that?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2020, 02:02:27 PM »
100% of the players would be helped if they shorten courses but don't narrow them.


I hate holes where driver is taken out of play. It’s the straightest club in my bag. So no, I’m one guy hurt by shorter courses.

Glad to see you are still slinging your usual line of BS.

If driver is the straightest club in your bag, then maybe you should take two weeks off, and then give up golf altogether.

And, perhaps try the same thing here with posting.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2020, 02:13:55 PM »
I can't be the only golfer in the world that hates the 4 iron play safe off the tee option. The lower the club the more the spin. The more the spin the greater the sideways. The bigger the sideways the higher the score.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2020, 09:25:16 PM »
I can't be the only golfer in the world that hates the 4 iron play safe off the tee option. The lower the club the more the spin. The more the spin the greater the sideways. The bigger the sideways the higher the score.

More BS, and actually the opposite of the truth.

Take a break Barney!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2020, 09:49:04 PM »
100% of the players would be helped if they shorten courses but don't narrow them.


I hate holes where driver is taken out of play. It’s the straightest club in my bag. So no, I’m one guy hurt by shorter courses.


Sounds like we need to play a money match on a short course with lots of tree-lined doglegs!! ;-)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2020, 09:54:33 PM »
Sounds great! Sad thing is that is exactly the opposite of what Garland wants.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2020, 10:22:52 PM »
Sounds great! Sad thing is that is exactly the opposite of what Garland wants.

I am happy to see David fleece you in
a money match on a short course with lots of tree-lined doglegs!! ;-)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2020, 03:33:03 AM »
So Bryson wins last night with I believe an average tee shot over 350 yds and average second shot on par-4’s of approx 105 yds.
Fair play to him personally for the time and effort he’s put in to take his game to this position but .... jeez, what does this do for the game going forward?
The R&A and the USGA published their Distance Report quite a while ago now, and yes Covid has probably taken their eyes off the ball, but they need to act and act quickly. The game is surely more important than the manufacturers.
Atb

Ben Attwood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2020, 07:27:06 AM »
I think reducing it to a distance issue is too one dimensional. It should be about maximising the skill required to separate oneself from the competition.  I think it would be more helpful to think about driver head size and spin rate of the ball and slightly out of the box ideas like always banning teeing the ball up.

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2020, 10:02:59 AM »
Props to Bryson for improving himself and utilizing the tools available.  Has technology allowed obscene distances?  Yes.  Are courses obsolete?  Yes.  Is Bryson a great athlete that could hang in the NFL or NBA?  No.  Just wait because there are LeBron level athletes that will be in golf in the near future.  There's too much money available.  You haven't seen anything yet in regards to distance.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2020, 10:05:34 AM »
...  I think it would be more helpful to think about driver head size and spin rate of the ball ...

Limit to two piece ball, and allow variance in the softness of the cover.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2020, 10:16:50 AM »
Props to Bryson for improving himself and utilizing the tools available.  Has technology allowed obscene distances?  Yes.  Are courses obsolete?  Yes.  Is Bryson a great athlete that could hang in the NFL or NBA?  No.  Just wait because there are LeBron level athletes that will be in golf in the near future.  There's too much money available.  You haven't seen anything yet in regards to distance.


Looks like more trips to the soccer field for uncoordinated kids bourne from uncoordinated excuse laden parents. DCB looks to have outworked everyone this off-season. Honestly, given the world wide crisis his recent stretch of golf is hardly memorable.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2020, 10:22:24 AM »
Your child doesn’t need a LeBron bod or be Musk odd to be one of the greatest people in the world. Let’s not start defining golfers by body type.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2020, 11:51:55 AM »
JK,


Not one to coddle, my dad shot my athletic dreams down early, first by pointing out that if my little league team went far enough in the state tournament, we would almost certainly run into some team that was better.  When it turned to golf, we went to the Western Open one hear and he noted how much thicker the arms of Arnie, Jack, Tom, etc. were than my bony little arms.  And, how big their hands were compared to my very average size hands.  Basically, there is some limit to the positive "I think I can, I think I can" attitude.  Positive attitude and non athletic bod, no go.  But, BAD is a great example for kids who need to understand how much work it takes.  All those Disney movies shoot straight to the happy ending, cheering crowds, etc., sort of downplaying all the behind the scenes work it takes to be successful.


As to what it means for golf, these protests against the top 1% of distance sort of miss the point.  There are probably already enough 7600 yard courses out there that could be expanded to 8K, and have the infrastructure to hold tournaments.  If not, someone will be glad to build them.  The only losers are traditional clubs that still want to hold tourneys.  I think the USGA and PGA Tour have long wanted to move away from the course rental mode anyway. ::)


So, we build maybe a dozen courses and let the rest of them alone until someone gets really bored with 340 yard drives.  The tour average is still 294, BTW (and median, which sometimes can be a bit different) at least in 2019.  I haven't checked the limited data for this year.  Or, amend the rules to tax the rich and make him wear ankle weights or something else to slow him down.  Even if he drives it as far, maybe the two stroke penalties for slow play will even the field.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 11:53:43 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2020, 12:23:37 PM »
I don't think the Country Club of Detroit got a damn thing out of hosting this tournament. I don't doubt that 80% of all members of these old established classic clubs would be thrilled to let the hassle of professional golf pass them by. The only reason more people don't speak up is because it's tough to do without looking like a dick. Something I know a little something about.


I do hope those non social distancing bags of wind that were cozying up to the tees from their homes this weekend are banned from their workplaces for 14 days.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2020, 12:44:56 PM »
It's not about Bryson DeChambeau personally, he's the poster boy.
It's about the future of golf should the trends that have been ongoing for quite some years now and have been highlighted and magnified by Brysons performances over the last couple of weeks be allowed to continue.
It's about the long term consequences to the game if restrictions are not appropriately applied and applied soon.
It's about a game that uses relatively large amounts of land and water on a finite size planet with limited resources and an ever increasing population.
It's about nearby public and other player safety.
It's about the time it takes to play.
And at the elite professional level it's about entertainment (vrs boredom).
atb

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2020, 12:55:50 PM »
Thomas,


Like I said, if 99%+ of courses would design for their players (almost certainly in the lower 99% of drive lengths) all of that is taken care of.  The problem is, for decades the golf press judged courses by their potential for championship status.  The every day course needs to be no more than 6,800 yards to challenge all but that 1% of top length players (which starts at about 280 yards, BTW)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2020, 12:56:31 PM »
I would not submit the tournament this week as boring.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2020, 01:05:29 PM »
I will even submit that every major won by a short hitter has been more boring than those won by long hitters. Tiger and Jack's 32 to start. The recent run by Jordan Spieth was the greatest most boring run in major golf.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2020, 01:15:38 PM »
Yeah, but Rocco coming close in 2008 at Torey was pretty memorable!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2020, 01:16:27 PM »

John, we are all entitled to our opinions. As far as I'm concerned it was boring, laughably boring. Snooze fest time.
Jeff, ignoring the elite pro game, what about the 15-40 yr old amateur guys and some gals who bomb it and as the years progress those coming after them will bomb it even further?
atb

Mark Mammel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #46 on: July 06, 2020, 01:18:21 PM »
It's not about Bryson DeChambeau personally, he's the poster boy.
It's about the future of golf should the trends that have been ongoing for quite some years now and have been highlighted and magnified by Brysons performances over the last couple of weeks be allowed to continue.
It's about the long term consequences to the game if restrictions are not appropriately applied and applied soon.
It's about a game that uses relatively large amounts of land and water on a finite size planet with limited resources and an ever increasing population.
It's about nearby public and other player safety.
It's about the time it takes to play.
And at the elite professional level it's about entertainment (vrs boredom).
atb
This gets to the deeper issue in my opinion. Professional golf grew naturally out of the game played on the links of Scotland. The best players were those that could play lots of different shots. They were masters of the entire game. Golf course design has always been deeply influenced by those original playing grounds, with their funny bumps, gravity-well bunkers, and often unforgiving greens. The game played buy the pros has changed over the last fifty years; there are essentially no hazards since the goal is to hit the ball over everything, and land anywhere it isn't blocked. Take Bryson's 8 iron from the rough on 17 in the final round, just 231 to the pin for an easy 2 putt birdie. Is it magical? Sure. Is it amazing? Yes. But is it golf in any way that the average, or scratch, golfer can recognize? No. The new "championship" courses could feature 600 yard par 4 holes with 300 yards of trees and no fairway. Maybe 400 yards. Then a green. Who needs bump and run shots, shaped shots for position, fairways with complex contours?
Boring.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2020, 01:21:49 PM »
I think the real problem here is the monkey see, monkey do nonsense from weekend hacks.

Swinging out of their shoes on every shot, hitting balls way off line and adding a ton of extra time per player per round looking for all those wayward shots...

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2020, 01:24:28 PM »
I think the real problem here is the monkey see, monkey do nonsense from weekend hacks.

Swinging out of their shoes on every shot, hitting balls way off line and adding a ton of extra time per player per round looking for all those wayward shots...



Stop. I've been hitting drives as far as I can for over 50 years. I even went so far as to put balls on top of a pencil.


This is not new!!! This is not boring!!!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lawson Little and Bryson DeChambeau
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2020, 01:29:27 PM »
Barney,

Its my understanding you've been a single digit capper for most of your golfing life.

I'm not talking about the minority of players who know how to golf their ball reasonably well.

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