Long par-4’s and par-5’s that would make great short par-4’s?

[Thomas Dai]

What would be some examples of terrific long par-4’s and par-5’s which would make outstanding holes, maybe even better ones, if they were instead only circa 275-325 yd par-4’s? Risk and reward etc.
The 1st at RLGC/Hoylake might be a pretty tasty example?

Atb

[Will Lozier]

I think the greensite at Deal's 16th would make for an amazing short par-4! I would think with a tee in the right rough about 330 out would make for a really interesting decision. I do not think it would improve the hole having said that!!


Cheers

[Mike_Clayton]

The 10th East at Royal Melbourne - a 510y par 5- would be one of the very best 300-330 yard holes in Australia. Drivable but with so multiple options, many of them dependent on where the pin is cut.
In a way, it's a real pity to see the long hitters hitting drivers and seven irons, completely negating the strategy. The only way to regain it for them would be to make it a short 4.

[Thomas Dai]

The 10th East at Royal Melbourne - a 510y par 5- would be one of the very best 300-330 yard holes in Australia. Drivable but with so multiple options, many of them dependent on where the pin is cut.
In a way, it's a real pity to see the long hitters hitting drivers and seven irons, completely negating the strategy. The only way to regain it for them would be to make it a short 4.

You could most likely make a terrific 18-hole course with only short/driveable-for-some par-4’s. Wouldn’t be a great overall yardage and land footprint either.


Add a few more suggestions - not existing short par-4’s - but shortened versions of longer par-4’s and Par-5’s -


1 Hoylake
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3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 Royal Melbourne East
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18


Atb

[James Boon]

Interesting question?


I can imagine Foxy, 14 at Dornoch making an interesting short par 4. Laying up or bailing out left leaves an interesting full wedge or pitch to a raised green. Anyone going for it has to take on the mounds down the right.


Thinking back to my own round yesterday at Hollinwell we played off the back tees so a decent drive on the downhill par 5 3rd still left in the region of 300 yards to go. This is clearly a layup for me but as its downhill only a little more roll and I could have started to think about having a go for the green. Putting a tee somewhere near the start of the fairway would leave just over 300 yards to a downhill hole. A layup would ideally hug the left bunker about 140yds out to get an angle up the green, whereas a bailout right leaves an approach across the angle of the green, over a hollow with a road behind. going for the green has plenty of trouble, but equally an attempt that pulls up short left leaves and easy pitch up the green. Now I think about it maybe I'll suggest this at the committee meeting this week 


Cheers,


James

[Tom_Doak]

The 10th East at Royal Melbourne - a 510y par 5- would be one of the very best 300-330 yard holes in Australia. Drivable but with so multiple options, many of them dependent on where the pin is cut.
In a way, it's a real pity to see the long hitters hitting drivers and seven irons, completely negating the strategy. The only way to regain it for them would be to make it a short 4.

This is true but I always think of it the other way around . . . If I can stretch the hole into a longer par-4 or a par-5, I usually will, because longer holes are harder to find on undulating property.  So this thread is kind of backwards, to me.


One example that comes right to mind:  i first saw the 10th hole at Rock Creek as a short 4, but then realized there was an place for an even more dramatic tee way back up the hill.

[Tal Oz]

I think Tom's point here is very valid. I can think of quite a few holes where if played from 275-325 would be spectacular tee shots and holes, but very few that would be better holes because of it.

14 at Rustic Canyon from the drop zone is 280 ish and from plenty of - ahem - experience is still a great hole. However that would require getting rid of the best tee shot on the course.

Didn't they recently reclaim that ocean front teebox on 10 at Pebble? On a straight line it's 330 to the front edge of the green. I would've loved to see the USGA integrate it one round last year.

[Tom_Doak]

Tal:


Many of these might actually be better as short par-4's.  But you've gotta find your length somewhere, and if it comes with an interesting last 100 yards, it will usually make a good long hole, too.

[Mike_Clayton]

The 10th East at Royal Melbourne - a 510y par 5- would be one of the very best 300-330 yard holes in Australia. Drivable but with so multiple options, many of them dependent on where the pin is cut.
In a way, it's a real pity to see the long hitters hitting drivers and seven irons, completely negating the strategy. The only way to regain it for them would be to make it a short 4.

This is true but I always think of it the other way around . . . If I can stretch the hole into a longer par-4 or a par-5, I usually will, because longer holes are harder to find on undulating property.  So this thread is kind of backwards, to me.


One example that comes right to mind:  i first saw the 10th hole at Rock Creek as a short 4, but then realized there was an place for an even more dramatic tee way back up the hill.


Yes, 10 RME would be an even better hole - not for the majority of members - for longer hitters with 70 yards on the tee shot. The only way to do that is take out all the trees left of the tee and go back to the edge of the 9th hole - and probably further.

[Michael Felton]

I would think a lot of par fives would qualify here. Just about reachable par fives where you have to hit a great tee shot to really enjoy the question - those holes if you start from "the question" then that could be great. It's harder with long par 4s, although I'd think that a tee on 17 at TOC at about 280 would make for a heck of a hole. So much trouble around that green, but so tempting too. Similar situation with 13 at PV