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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sheep Ranch 2.0
« on: June 04, 2020, 10:50:26 AM »
Bill Coore has done it again!, Great routing, no sand bunkers, beautiful site!

#1 downhill par 5 to the ocean, fairway canted R to L, wonderful green with lots of movement at the edge of the Pacific, yummy
#2 drivable par 4, yes please! with a little cape action happening, small tilted and redone green from 1.0, fun
#3 Phil's hole, short par 3 straight at 5 mile point big mounded and bowled green, sweet
#4 ridged fairway Par 4, keep left off tee, birdie hole, nice use of land
#5 longish par 3 to an infinity ocean green redone from 1.0, beautiful
#6 Cape hole over the beach, to an elevated green near the site of a green from 1.0, wonderful
#7 short par 3 with an infinity view of Whiskey Run Beach and ocean, tasty
#8 nice par 4 dogleg right back towards the forest with a wonderfully mounded green back against the trees, awesome
#9 par 4 straight down to the beach with and infinity view of the ocean, luscious
#10 par 4 back towards the clubhouse, into the prevailing wind it's driver, 2 iron, solid
#11 great par 5 back to the clubhouse, love the narrowed entry to the green, with Phil's Bench under the old hut from 1.0 nearby
#12 the old #1, par 4 down towards the ocean, lovely
#13 par 5 back towards the clubhouse, great 2 shot hole if you smash a couple, great
#14 Alps tee shot over a big ridge, smash a drive and you could get close to this elevated redone green from 1.0, love it
#15 short par 4 back to the ocean with an infinity green at the same spot from 1.0, big mounds, delicious views
#16 short par-3 to 5 mile point, with beautiful views, stunning!
#17 great par 4 hard against the beach with a cape option tee shot from the tip and a huge green, wow
#18 short par 5 back to the clubhouse and a lower green site from 1.0, definite birdie hole, could be a par 4, bravo

all in all a great golf course on a simply beautiful site!
congrats to all involved

lodging and more to come in time at the Sheep Ranch in time

cheers
It's all about the golf!

Jonathan Webb

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2020, 11:27:22 AM »
Have only played 1.0, 2.0 looks fantastic.


Was the low area right of #13 green sand or grass? Almost looks like they put a sand pro in it.




PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2020, 11:31:40 AM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?

H.P.S.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2020, 11:43:32 AM »
Did JB Holmes make that graphic?

430 yard drive, followed by a 55 yard pitch the green?  Yowsers...

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2020, 12:25:03 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


so you don't like aerial, WTFCs


the course is awesome while playing, super fun
on 13 I smashed driver and 3 wood and still short by 30 yards
It's all about the golf!

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2020, 12:38:27 PM »
Jonathan -


That is all grass.  There may be a couple old sand bunkers lingering on the site, but you'll be hard pressed to find them.


13 is very reminiscent of 13 at Augusta National.


Pat -


Come out and play it and see if you have the same opinion.  The grass bunkers serve their purpose well, and the shaping gives a bit of definition to a course that would be pretty bland to the eye without them.  Like any bunker, then can be anything from no to a full shot penalty depending on exactly where your ball comes to rest.


Everyone -


Whenever we discuss the courses at Bandon, it always seems to be with the summer wind in mind.  This course played very different last fall and this winter with the south wind.  For example, #10 in the summer is a beast of a 380 yard hole.  In six months it is going to be driver wedge, with the hard right side trouble being much more of a factor with the southwest wind.  Even playing shorter there's enough interest in the green to provide a stout test.


Here's my quick take on the holes -


1 - Bandon's version of #1 at Spyglass.  Already the best opener on property.  The entrance out of the trees on to the course is epic, with the hole immediately taking you to the top of the cliff at the green.
2 - Not as smitten as others.  A nice little par 4, but kind of boring.  It'll be a tougher drive in the winter with an uphill approach to the perched green.  If any hole out here feels gimmicky, its this one.
3 - Can't wait to see an extreme left pin tucked behind the berm.  Otherwise, a pretty easy little par 3.  Green is big enough to hold knock down approaches in the summer, and to give some room when its going to be into the wind.
4 - A dogleg hogsback with a big reward for clearing the ridge.  Cool left to right features on the green are going to allow for creative approach shots.  As Grey said, a birdie hole.  But that's in the summer.  Its going to be a beast in the winter.
5 - Tough with either wind, the best par 3 on the site (7 and 16 beat it for eye candy, however).
6 - Definite risk reward on the drive, with a plateaued green that is going to take some judgment to hold when everything firms up.  Good luck here when the wind switches.
7 - Short par 3 with a big green.  The back pin in the summer is going to be very cool.  I could see people hitting everything from gap to hybrid here depending on the weather.
8 - Just a cool par 4 for some of the least interesting land on the site.  Tough in the summer as its hard to get to a spot where you have a look at the green.  Lines off the tee are very important.
9 - In the summer, it calls for a tumbling drive flirting with the gorse on the right, followed by a well-judged shot to a green that runs away.  Another beast in the winter wind.
10 - Discussed above.  Great green contours.
11 - Unlike any other hole at Bandon.  Three good shots in the summer, gettable in the winter, with a green setting that is simply awesome.
12 - A fairly boring crosswind longer par 4.  The tiered tee boxes below the clubhouse are really cool, but there are better crosswind par 4's on property.
13 - A bit of risk reward for long hitters off the tee, with the best approach angle from the left side.  A great green site and contours that allow you to feed the ball from short left to back right.  Just feels like an ode to 13 at ANGC.
14 - Panned by another reviewer.  The big hitters can knock it up by the green in the summer, taking on the carry over the hill on the left.  There's an alley for short knockers up the right.  A much different hole and play in the winter when everyone is going to be taking the dogleg line. 
15 - On calm days this one feels a little cramped.  A very cool three section green with a great center line ridge.  Calls for a precise wedge in to the proper section.  Have been surprised how many people are missing right with the summer wind coming from that side, perhaps due to the cliff edge lurking as a short porch on the left.
16 - Personally, this feels like a missed opportunity.  Perhaps the third best green site on the west coast, and the shot in is pretty benign.  Take enough club and stay right in the summer.  In the winter you might be able to hang something out over the ocean and watch it blow back.
17 - I really hope they incorporate the back tees here on the back edge of 16 green.  Just a beast of a hole from back there.  From the regular tee boxes, a nice little par 4. 
18 - This one has and will be discussed in depth.  We'll see if the par 5 status holds up.  Most players right now are ending up with around 130 to 150 in for their second, and I've seen a couple guys get into the 100 - 110 range.  The green site is its strength, with a myriad of great pin locations and contours to have some fun with.


Much like Old Mac, the hardest holes here show up in the second 3rd of the course.  Pacing wise, we've been flying through the front 9, with the turn back into the wind at 10 presenting the first true test (5 and 6 aside).  There's never more than 2 holes in a row running the same direction, so it doesn't feel like the same kind of relentless test that you get on the 10 - 13 run at Pac or 15 -18 at Trails.


The wind has been blowing a good bit over the last three days, yet the course is completely playable.  Personally, I don't think its much windier than OM, PD and BD.  If its blowing, you'll feel it at all four of these courses.


There's a nice contrast in the C&C work between Trails and Sheep Ranch.  While every hole at Trails feels like its own little universe, at the SR you pretty much always have other holes in site.  There are a number of crossovers (4/5 and 14/15, 7/8 and 9/10) and another of other places with tees in close proximity (4 and 13, 2 and 18).  The big worry was that certain spots might make a hard hat a good idea, but it seems that there's enough spacing where this isn't a problem for the side by side holes.  We'll see.


The Sheep Ranch isn't the toughest course on property, and other than the constant ocean views it isn't the prettiest.  I'm not sure if it is the most fun either, although everyone has been having a blast so far.  The best way to describe it may be as the coolest, and that's enough for it to be the perfect complement to the other four.


Sven


PS - Here's my ranking of favorite holes at the resort right now.


1 - SR
2 - PD
3 - OM
4 - BD
5 - BD
6 - SR
7 - OM
8 - PD/SR tie
9 - BT
10 - BT
11 - PD/BT/SR tie
12 - PD
13 - PD/BT/SR tie
14 - BD
15 - BT
16 - BD
17 - BT
18 - OM


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2020, 01:48:18 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


I agree with this. I think it's silly to design bunkers and then not put sand in them. That one on 13 just looks like an abandoned sand trap rather than something specifically built for the purpose.


I'm on board with no bunkers, and the course still looks great, but those grass bunkers look terrible. I don't really understand why they didn't try something new rather than build what look exactly like regular sand traps and just not fill them.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2020, 01:55:49 PM »
thank you Sven
 8) 8) 8) 8)
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2020, 01:56:41 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


I agree with this. I think it's silly to design bunkers and then not put sand in them. That one on 13 just looks like an abandoned sand trap rather than something specifically built for the purpose.


I'm on board with no bunkers, and the course still looks great, but those grass bunkers look terrible. I don't really understand why they didn't try something new rather than build what look exactly like regular sand traps and just not fill them.


you don't like the aerial view either, who cares?
It's all about the golf!

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2020, 01:59:14 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


I agree with this. I think it's silly to design bunkers and then not put sand in them. That one on 13 just looks like an abandoned sand trap rather than something specifically built for the purpose.


I'm on board with no bunkers, and the course still looks great, but those grass bunkers look terrible. I don't really understand why they didn't try something new rather than build what look exactly like regular sand traps and just not fill them.


Have you played them yet?


The current look has three functions.  First, if they do decide to add sand at some point, much of the work is already done.  Won't be much of a disruption to make any alterations.


Second, the way these grass bunkers work is much like the way a sand bunker would work.  If your ball ends up on the flat bottom part, you get a relatively easy shot off of the short grass.  But if you end up in the face the penalty is most likely going to be a bit more severe, just like you'd get in many of the bunkers on the other courses.


Gives a bit of an element of luck to those areas, and makes them something to avoid.


Third, there's definitely more mowing involved with this form of hazard, but you don't have any of the normal bunker maintenance issues including the erosion that takes place when there isn't grass on the ground to prevent the wind from carving up exposed ground.


In person they are very cool looking.  It is also something different from what you'll experience on the other four courses, variety being the spice of life and all that.


Suggest you give them a go before you knock them.  Don't think photos are doing this novel approach any justice.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2020, 02:31:59 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


I agree with this. I think it's silly to design bunkers and then not put sand in them. That one on 13 just looks like an abandoned sand trap rather than something specifically built for the purpose.


I'm on board with no bunkers, and the course still looks great, but those grass bunkers look terrible. I don't really understand why they didn't try something new rather than build what look exactly like regular sand traps and just not fill them.


Have you played them yet?


The current look has three functions.  First, if they do decide to add sand at some point, much of the work is already done.  Won't be much of a disruption to make any alterations.


Second, the way these grass bunkers work is much like the way a sand bunker would work.  If your ball ends up on the flat bottom part, you get a relatively easy shot off of the short grass.  But if you end up in the face the penalty is most likely going to be a bit more severe, just like you'd get in many of the bunkers on the other courses.


Gives a bit of an element of luck to those areas, and makes them something to avoid.


Third, there's definitely more mowing involved with this form of hazard, but you don't have any of the normal bunker maintenance issues including the erosion that takes place when there isn't grass on the ground to prevent the wind from carving up exposed ground.


In person they are very cool looking.  It is also something different from what you'll experience on the other four courses, variety being the spice of life and all that.


Suggest you give them a go before you knock them.  Don't think photos are doing this novel approach any justice.


+100000000
It's all about the golf!

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2020, 03:17:35 PM »
So if the point is to have uniform sand in each "bunker", why not at least dig down and expose some of the sand...given that's what it's all built on? At least that way it would look and play more like a "traditional" waste-style bunker?
H.P.S.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2020, 03:25:39 PM »
So if the point is to have uniform sand in each "bunker", why not at least dig down and expose some of the sand...given that's what it's all built on? At least that way it would look and play more like a "traditional" waste-style bunker?


Who said the point was to have sand in the bunkers?


Not sure if I'm missing something here or you are.


There's been plenty written already on why this course was built with no sand bunkers.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

David Wuthrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2020, 03:29:56 PM »
After playing multiple times, I think that 18 will be a Par 4 sooner or later. 


Whole course is a MUST play!

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2020, 03:34:49 PM »
I wonder if the average guy who is not into gca will feel that the Sheep Ranch was worth $300? My experience has been that guys that I know who are not into gca and its history did not like Old Mac.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2020, 03:35:50 PM »
Jerry -


My experience has been the opposite for both courses.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2020, 03:54:57 PM »
I wonder if the average guy who is not into gca will feel that the Sheep Ranch was worth $300? My experience has been that guys that I know who are not into gca and its history did not like Old Mac.


the retail golfer is what has made this place a booming success


https://www.bandondunesgolf.com/2020-green-fees


with replay in the July August and September, peak season, you play 36 for $445 (295 +150), April or November $265, May $325, etc....................................
It's all about the golf!

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2020, 04:11:38 PM »

1 - SR
2 - PD
3 - OM
4 - BD
5 - BD
6 - SR
7 - OM
8 - PD/SR tie
9 - BT
10 - BT
11 - PD/BT/SR tie
12 - PD
13 - PD/BT/SR tie
14 - BD
15 - BT
16 - BD
17 - BT
18 - OM

That is amazingly close to how I'd rank them.  In fact, I can't think of a single disagreement.

17 at BT has kicked my butt a few times, but I still love it. 

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2020, 05:05:35 PM »
Sorry but those grass bunkers look absolutely ridiculous and contrived. If you're going to shape them that much why not just fill them with sand?


I agree with this. I think it's silly to design bunkers and then not put sand in them. That one on 13 just looks like an abandoned sand trap rather than something specifically built for the purpose.


I'm on board with no bunkers, and the course still looks great, but those grass bunkers look terrible. I don't really understand why they didn't try something new rather than build what look exactly like regular sand traps and just not fill them.


Have you played them yet?


The current look has three functions.  First, if they do decide to add sand at some point, much of the work is already done.  Won't be much of a disruption to make any alterations.


Second, the way these grass bunkers work is much like the way a sand bunker would work.  If your ball ends up on the flat bottom part, you get a relatively easy shot off of the short grass.  But if you end up in the face the penalty is most likely going to be a bit more severe, just like you'd get in many of the bunkers on the other courses.


Gives a bit of an element of luck to those areas, and makes them something to avoid.


Third, there's definitely more mowing involved with this form of hazard, but you don't have any of the normal bunker maintenance issues including the erosion that takes place when there isn't grass on the ground to prevent the wind from carving up exposed ground.


In person they are very cool looking.  It is also something different from what you'll experience on the other four courses, variety being the spice of life and all that.


Suggest you give them a go before you knock them.  Don't think photos are doing this novel approach any justice.


My issue was more with how intricate the shaping seems around the lips. I don't really understand the point of that; it seems like an added expense for no benefit. I suppose that's actually true of all bunkers, but there's at least a visual aspect involved with sand that doesn't really exist when it's a grass bunker.


Regardless, I was only saying they look bizarre from an aerial POV. I have no issue with grass bunkers in general, or the idea of no bunkers at all, and I think the course itself looks tremendous.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2020, 06:13:13 PM »
I suppose pictures are posted to invite comment - why else would they be posted? Add me to the list of people, who think on that particular picture the grass bunker looks ridiculous. If that's just an unfortunate representation, so be it. But if you post it, it's going to be looked at.
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Emile Bonfiglio

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2020, 06:14:06 PM »
I'm playing there Wednesday (taking my 12 year old for his first time out on one of the big courses). I'll report back.
You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2020, 06:48:49 PM »
I'm playing there Wednesday (taking my 12 year old for his first time out on one of the big courses). I'll report back.
excellent
It's all about the golf!

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2020, 07:57:48 PM »
classic stuff about photo critiques
empirical data is valuable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant
He did a lot of excellent Philosophy without traveling 8)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 08:36:10 PM by William_G »
It's all about the golf!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2020, 10:41:25 PM »
...why not at least dig down and expose some of the sand...

My recollection is that the site doesn't have a sandy base like the rest of the resort. And, it has been widely reported that it is the windiest location at the resort, and bunkers won't hold sand in that level of wind.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sheep Ranch 2.0
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2020, 10:45:40 PM »
I wonder if the average guy who is not into gca will feel that the Sheep Ranch was worth $300? My experience has been that guys that I know who are not into gca and its history did not like Old Mac.

What does knowing history have to do with enjoying Old Mac? It's a great course whether there ever was someone named C. B. MacDonald or not.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne