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Mark Pearce

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2020, 04:19:45 AM »
Quote from: Ben Stephens on June 06, 2020, 03:46:57 PM
I am surprised generally that lots of clubs in the UK who has rig and furrow fairways have not considered to use inert fill to cover them. Personally I am not a fan of rig and furrow and they are terrible for walking with a trolley and even worse when in a buggy.
Really, Ben?  The Northumberland has rig and furrow on a number of holes.  It has never occurred to me that it was a problem pushing a trolley and I've been playing there 19 years.  In my mind it adds to the interest.  You certainly learn how to play off uphill, downhill and side hill lies.
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Sean_A

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2020, 04:40:53 AM »
I realize that some r&f were dug after courses were built, but I would be very hesitant to even them out. Many are in a way WWII memorials. Plus, they do add a bit of random bouncing into a course. As Mark states, they create uneven lies and stances which makes ball flight hard to control. I don't see r&f very often anyway.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 04:59:11 AM by Sean_A »
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Ben Stephens

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2020, 04:47:14 AM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on June 07, 2020, 04:19:45 AM
Quote from: Ben Stephens on June 06, 2020, 03:46:57 PM
I am surprised generally that lots of clubs in the UK who has rig and furrow fairways have not considered to use inert fill to cover them. Personally I am not a fan of rig and furrow and they are terrible for walking with a trolley and even worse when in a buggy.
Really, Ben?  The Northumberland has rig and furrow on a number of holes.  It has never occurred to me that it was a problem pushing a trolley and I've been playing there 19 years.  In my mind it adds to the interest.  You certainly learn how to play off uphill, downhill and side hill lies.


Mark,


Rig and furrow is ancient farming practice and probably has been there longer than the golf course. It is artificial and I am not a fan of it on golf courses I rather have natural looking contours for different lies and it is easier to maintain whereas rig a furrow the grass is longer at the bottom and its rather wet and dry at the top and shaved - its not ideal from a maintenance standpoint. It tends to be predictable when you play certain lies rather than the natural mounds like at St Andrews which is harder to see what stance you need to make and they are of varying sizes plus mostly easier to maintain.


R+F is everywhere on the older courses in my area so I am pretty well used to it.


Cheers
ben
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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2020, 08:20:39 AM »
As Ben says,  rig and furrow is a remnant of medieval farming practice that long pre-dates golf courses. It is evidence that land that was once use to grow crops was subsequently grazed instead before finally being turned over to golf maybe 100 years ago. Continuously farmed arable land will have lost its rig and furrow as more modern ploughing techniques took over in the last 200 years or so.


100 years ago courses on R&F land utilised the feature as there was no easy way to eliminate it. These days it would simply be bulldozed flat. I quite like it so long as it doesn't dominate the whole course.


Here's a good example at Reddish Vale...

Rig & Furrow by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 08:31:35 AM by Duncan Cheslett »
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Ben Stephens

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2020, 08:31:20 AM »
Quote from: Duncan Cheslett on June 07, 2020, 08:20:39 AM
As Ben says,  rig and furrow is a remnant of medieval farming practice that long pre-dates golf courses. It is evidence that land that was once use to grow crops was subsequently grazed instead before finally being turned over to golf maybe 100 years ago. Continuously farmed arable land will have lost its rig and furrow as more modern ploughing techniques took over in the last 200 years or so.


100 years ago courses on R&F land utilised the feature as there was no easy way to eliminate it. These days it would simply be bulldozed flat. I quite like it so long as it doesn't dominate the whole course.


Here's a good example at Reddish Vale...


Rig & Furrow by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr


Was going to ask you whether there was some of these features at Cavendish or RV  ;D
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Ben Stephens

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2020, 08:36:04 AM »
The rig and furrows of Leics and Rutland courses:


Luffenham Heath
Rutland Water (has a really shallow ones on the 9th fairway you can feel them if you drive a buggy!)
Market Harborough
Cosby
Kirby Muxloe
Leicestershire
Rothley
Longcliffe
Charnwood Forest
Stapleford Park (1,17 and 18)
Birstall
Glen Gorse
Scraptoft
Willesley Park
Melton Mowbray


Practically every course in L+R has rig and furrow maybe there is a reason why I dislike them  ;D

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Duncan Cheslett

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2020, 08:36:29 AM »
None at Cavendish because it has never been arable land - it has only ever been grazed by sheep.


At Reddish Vale there is evidence of rig and furrow on three or four holes. Prior to being a golf course the land was split between corn production and dairy farming. The R&F areas will have been those with the cows.
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James Bennett

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2020, 05:58:35 AM »
If playing preferred lies, rig and furrow provides ideal surfaces year-round.Play from the top of the rig in winter when the fairway is heavy, and from the bottom of the furrow when in summer drought.
Good,affordable golf on otherwise poor soils with a minimum of inputs eg watering, drainage.
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Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

James Boon

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2020, 02:31:24 PM »
One of my worst experiences of rig or ridge and furrow was playing in the final of the county inter club foursomes, needing to win the last hole to win the tournament for the club. Opponents hit a bit of a hook that hits an upslope of a ridge and instead of being deep in the rough sits pretty on the fairway, my partner hits a cracking drive down the middle that hits a downslope and shoots off deep into the woods. We didn't win.


Having got that out of my system I'd like to thank some of my good friends for hijacking this thread  ;D ::) and feel i must point out that THERE IS NO RIG AND FURROW AT HOLLINWELL!!!

Cheers,

James



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Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2020, 02:40:32 AM »
Quote from: James Boon on June 08, 2020, 02:31:24 PM

Having got that out of my system I'd like to thank some of my good friends for hijacking this thread  ;D ::) and feel i must point out that THERE IS NO RIG AND FURROW AT HOLLINWELL!!!




Sorry James.  I blame Ben!  ;D
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Ben Stephens

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Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2020, 03:02:03 AM »
Quote from: Duncan Cheslett on June 09, 2020, 02:40:32 AM
Quote from: James Boon on June 08, 2020, 02:31:24 PM

Having got that out of my system I'd like to thank some of my good friends for hijacking this thread  ;D ::) and feel i must point out that THERE IS NO RIG AND FURROW AT HOLLINWELL!!!




Sorry James.  I blame Ben!  ;D


Dunc/James


I would have not brought up R+F had Clyde not mentioned ROT  ;D


Hollinwell is one of the rare older courses in the Midlands that does not have R+F and it is a very high quality course that I can't wait to get back to play.


Cheers
Ben
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Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: HOLLINWELL: Original Willie Park Jnr Layout and from History to Identity
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2020, 03:02:35 AM »
Quote from: James Boon on June 08, 2020, 02:31:24 PM
One of my worst experiences of rig or ridge and furrow was playing in the final of the county inter club foursomes, needing to win the last hole to win the tournament for the club. Opponents hit a bit of a hook that hits an upslope of a ridge and instead of being deep in the rough sits pretty on the fairway, my partner hits a cracking drive down the middle that hits a downslope and shoots off deep into the woods. We didn't win.


Having got that out of my system I'd like to thank some of my good friends for hijacking this thread  ;D ::) and feel i must point out that THERE IS NO RIG AND FURROW AT HOLLINWELL!!!

Cheers,

James


Was this at Stanton?
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