Ivy League’s Brown University cuts men’s and women’s golf teams

[Tim Martin]

The Ivy League has a pretty rich golf tradition so I was surprised to read this in Golfworld this morning.

[Carl Rogers]

It would seem the overhead for such a program would be negligible.

[John Kavanaugh]

Outside of Stephanie Wei what good has ever come from an Ivy League golf team?  Doesn’t the true spirit of the game call for golf to be an intramural sport?

[Jeff Schley]

As Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships, this isn't a huge money savings nor done for Title IX reasons. To be fair to Brown Uni, these were only 2 of the 11 that were dropped. Won't be the last university to cut, just one of the first to announce as universities are feeling the pinch from lost revenue in several areas.

Men’s and women’s fencing, women’s skiing, men’s and women’s squash, women’s equestrian, men’s indoor track and field, men’s outdoor track and field and men’s cross country will all transition to club status, along with the golf teams. Women’s sailing and coed sailing will transition from club to varsity status.

[John Kavanaugh]

They don’t want their uncoordinated online students feel like they are missing out on anything.

[Mark Smolens]

I'm probably too close to the situation as the men's coach is one of my best friends (and a truly great guy!), but the whole thing stinks. Justifying the decision because of a lack of success? This is Brown we're talking about. The opportunity for these kids to play Division I golf while attending an Ivy League school was so great for these young men and women. And as for the revenue pinch, it's not as if Brown football has been bringing in the big $$ supporting the other athletic programs.


Oh but varsity co-ed sailing, that's the way to enhance the reputation of your athletic department.

[John Kavanaugh]

I feel very lucky that my youngest child just graduated from college. Was able to experience LSU win the National Championship in ways that may never been seen again.

[Jerry Kluger]

Brown's endowment is $4.2 Billion - there doesn't have to be much of a return for the school to do anything it wants without worrying about the cost.  Consider that they charge $60k in tuition and fees with overall cost nearly $80k per year.

[Bernie Bell]

Outside of Stephanie Wei what good has ever come from an Ivy League golf team?  Doesn’t the true spirit of the game call for golf to be an intramural sport?

This good came from Princeton's golf team.  Good Winged Foot story.  I believe they also played at Pine Valley and The Country Club.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ZH3JLd2fE

[jeffwarne]

Brown's endowment is $4.2 Billion - there doesn't have to be much of a return for the school to do anything it wants without worrying about the cost.  Consider that they charge $60k in tuition and fees with overall cost nearly $80k per year.

How on earth could a golf team at an Ivy be cut?
i get it at a struggling private(most) or state university

[John Kavanaugh]

Brown's endowment is $4.2 Billion - there doesn't have to be much of a return for the school to do anything it wants without worrying about the cost.  Consider that they charge $60k in tuition and fees with overall cost nearly $80k per year.

How on earth could a golf team at an Ivy be cut?
i get it at a struggling private(most) or state university

No one wants to manage the quarantine after playing matches all over the east coast. Unlike most college sports these kids have the rest of their lives to play golf. Easy peasy.

[Tim Martin]

If I’m a bettor I think this will get reversed. I’m not saying for 20/21 but not long thereafter.

[John Blain]

Brown's endowment is $4.2 Billion - there doesn't have to be much of a return for the school to do anything it wants without worrying about the cost.  Consider that they charge $60k in tuition and fees with overall cost nearly $80k per year.

How on earth could a golf team at an Ivy be cut?
i get it at a struggling private(most) or state university

Very easily. Ivies have budgets just like any other school or corporation for that matter. Bottom line? The school decided that having a golf team wasn't that important in the whole scheme of things and that money was better spent somewhere else.They simply made the decision that golf would be better off as a club sport. I doubt that dropping golf will hurt alum donations because if it did they wouldn't have done it, trust me [size=78%] [/size]

[John Emerson]

It would seem the overhead for such a program would be negligible.

When at school has to cut 20% of next years budget these sports are the first to go.  I work at the University of Delaware and they are anticipating 20% cut for next FY.  I’ve heard from my parent that University of Louisville is expecting 25%+.  If your Dept. doesnt make money you’re on the chopping block at this point

[Tim Martin]

It would seem the overhead for such a program would be negligible.

When at school has to cut 20% of next years budget these sports are the first to go.  I work at the University of Delaware and they are anticipating 20% cut for next FY.  I’ve heard from my parent that University of Louisville is expecting 25%+.  If your Dept. doesnt make money you’re on the chopping block at this point

John-I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison between a state university and one of the ivy schools for purposes of endowments and or fundraising to capitalize any of the sports programs. Maybe a trend is beginning but I’m going to wait and see if one of the other Ivy schools makes any similar decisions on the golf front.

[John Kavanaugh]

We are never getting our rakes back either. Why would a school where everyone wants to go not have full enrollment? It's not for a shortage of smart kids.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm with Jerry on this one.


One of the oldest universities in the country with a multi-billion endowment, and this is about money?


Umm, not buying it...

[John Emerson]

It would seem the overhead for such a program would be negligible.

When at school has to cut 20% of next years budget these sports are the first to go.  I work at the University of Delaware and they are anticipating 20% cut for next FY.  I’ve heard from my parent that University of Louisville is expecting 25%+.  If your Dept. doesnt make money you’re on the chopping block at this point

John-I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison between a state university and one of the ivy schools for purposes of endowments and or fundraising to capitalize any of the sports programs. Maybe a trend is beginning but I’m going to wait and see if one of the other Ivy schools makes any similar decisions on the golf front.

How is it apples to oranges?  Non-Revenue generating sport are ALWAYS the first to go regardless of school or endowment.

[John Blain]

If I’m a bettor I think this will get reversed. I’m not saying for 20/21 but not long thereafter.

Tim-
You may be correct, but I doubt it. Maybe if the program had a stronger history than it does some influential alums could get involved and try to bring it back but I think it makes it much easier to justify cutting a program when there such little history of success. Let's be honest, they have been an Ivy League bottom feeder not for years but decades. Not sure why they haven't been more competitive but they simply have not. I'm not saying this is the right decision but if an athletic department is cutting costs it would be tough to argue this is a mistake.
Just my opinion. I hope you're well.
-John 

[Tim Martin]

If I’m a bettor I think this will get reversed. I’m not saying for 20/21 but not long thereafter.

Tim-
You may be correct, but I doubt it. Maybe if the program had a stronger history than it does some influential alums could get involved and try to bring it back but I think it makes it much easier to justify cutting a program when there such little history of success. Let's be honest, they have been an Ivy League bottom feeder not for years but decades. Not sure why they haven't been more competitive but they simply have not. I'm not saying this is the right decision but if an athletic department is cutting costs it would be tough to argue this is a mistake.
Just my opinion. I hope you're well.
-John

John-Thanks for the insightful comments. Hope you are doing well also.

[Dan_Callahan]

Losing their home course probably didn’t help. Thank you, Brad Faxon.

[Tim Martin]

Losing their home course probably didn’t help. Thank you, Brad Faxon.

Dan-I’ve been eagerly awaiting the R.I. governor to at least let the border states in but still no go. Metacomet has tee times for the public for $55. C’mon Gina!!!!!!

[A.G._Crockett]

As Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships, this isn't a huge money savings nor done for Title IX reasons. To be fair to Brown Uni, these were only 2 of the 11 that were dropped. Won't be the last university to cut, just one of the first to announce as universities are feeling the pinch from lost revenue in several areas.

Men’s and women’s fencing, women’s skiing, men’s and women’s squash, women’s equestrian, men’s indoor track and field, men’s outdoor track and field and men’s cross country will all transition to club status, along with the golf teams. Women’s sailing and coed sailing will transition from club to varsity status.

This is far from the first.  East Carolina cut several sports a couple of weeks ago, including men's tennis.  Appalachian State cut men's tennis, men's soccer, and indoor track this past week.  Furman has cut several sports, most notably baseball, which Furman has been playing since 1891.  There is going to a LOT of this going forward, and if there is even one season of poor football attendance aznd related giving, there will be dominoes falling all over the country.
As to endowments and day-to-day athletic spending, I wouldn't necessarily conflate the two.  The conditions on endowment spending are pretty restrictive, and often limit dollars to capital improvements and strictly academic pursuits, including research and faculty chairs.  I would be surprised if many endowments around the country were able to be used to buy golf balls or pay coaches.
And fwiw, as bad as things might get in college athletics, high schools could be far worse.  Again, a failure in football gates for a lot of schools will be a disaster throughout the athletic program, especially with a lot the normal avenues for sport specific fund raising closed.

[Tim Martin]

It would seem the overhead for such a program would be negligible.

When at school has to cut 20% of next years budget these sports are the first to go.  I work at the University of Delaware and they are anticipating 20% cut for next FY.  I’ve heard from my parent that University of Louisville is expecting 25%+.  If your Dept. doesnt make money you’re on the chopping block at this point

John-I think it’s an apples and oranges comparison between a state university and one of the ivy schools for purposes of endowments and or fundraising to capitalize any of the sports programs. Maybe a trend is beginning but I’m going to wait and see if one of the other Ivy schools makes any similar decisions on the golf front.

How is it apples to oranges?  Non-Revenue generating sport are ALWAYS the first to go regardless of school or endowment.

You think Men’s and Women’s water polo and wrestling at Brown are revenue drivers? They remain as varsity sports with a bunch of others that don’t generate revenue either. Based on same the golf decision seems arbitrary.

[jeffwarne]

As Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships, this isn't a huge money savings nor done for Title IX reasons. To be fair to Brown Uni, these were only 2 of the 11 that were dropped. Won't be the last university to cut, just one of the first to announce as universities are feeling the pinch from lost revenue in several areas.

Men’s and women’s fencing, women’s skiing, men’s and women’s squash, women’s equestrian, men’s indoor track and field, men’s outdoor track and field and men’s cross country will all transition to club status, along with the golf teams. Women’s sailing and coed sailing will transition from club to varsity status.

This is far from the first.  East Carolina cut several sports a couple of weeks ago, including men's tennis.  Appalachian State cut men's tennis, men's soccer, and indoor track this past week.  Furman has cut several sports, most notably baseball, which Furman has been playing since 1891.  There is going to a LOT of this going forward, and if there is even one season of poor football attendance aznd related giving, there will be dominoes falling all over the country.
As to endowments and day-to-day athletic spending, I wouldn't necessarily conflate the two.  The conditions on endowment spending are pretty restrictive, and often limit dollars to capital improvements and strictly academic pursuits, including research and faculty chairs.  I would be surprised if many endowments around the country were able to be used to buy golf balls or pay coaches.
And fwiw, as bad as things might get in college athletics, high schools could be far worse.  Again, a failure in football gates for a lot of schools will be a disaster throughout the athletic program, especially with a lot the normal avenues for sport specific fund raising closed.

Brown ain't East Carolina...
You cut golf,squash, fencing, equestrian I'm pretty sure you've lost a lot of students (at least as recruits)who actually pay full freight.
Many kids are invited to "walk on" at elite schools BECAUSE they pay full freight