Donald Ross Misconceptions

[Mark_Fine]

Jeff,
Your comment about how you think Ross wanted domed greens at Pinehurst is how misconceptions get started 😉

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff,
Your comment about how you think Ross wanted domed greens at Pinehurst is how misconceptions get started 😉

Mark,I didn't say he wanted domed greens, they became domed as a result of the top dressing and as a result people thought he intended them as such. Passed before any correction could be made by his hand, thus others formed that misconception.

[Mark_Fine]

Jeff,
Then you must have a typo in the first sentence of your earlier post. 


Sven,
This is what Gerry said to me.  Gerry was the President of the Ross Society.  I am not sure who is now, didn’t look.


“Mark, To your question, I have had that conversation with Brad also. Part of the difficulty in getting clear answers is that the Clubs themselves would like to believe that he spent time on site, and nobody is still alive who was there at the time. Anecdotal recollections grow over time. The best source of verifiable info is old news articles, but Ross was not so famous in his early years that a local paper would mention a visit.”

He suggested the Tuffs Library which I have spent quite a bit of time at over the years when working on Ross projects.  They have more info on Ross than most anywhere. There is a lot at The Golf House as well in NJ.


Mark

[Mike_Young]

Domed is a misunderstood word.  A pushed up green can look as though it became a domed green just by mowing into the falloffs around the edges and then a dome has begun. 
I always have and will continue to call BS on so much of the hype around ODGs as well as the living.  Writers, owners, committees all judge by maintenance much more than they will admit.  Especially writers and raters. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

I recall seeing TD's Legends course in Myrtle Beach.  One thing that struck me as different was that some of the tees were mowed well off the top line of the level tee, very old style. It made the pushed up tee look like a domed tee with different mowing.  Maybe someday, Tom will have a thread about how misunderstood his tees were...….

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff,
Then you must have a typo in the first sentence of your earlier post. 


Sven,
This is what Gerry said to me.  Gerry was the President of the Ross Society.  I am not sure who is now, didn’t look.


“Mark, To your question, I have had that conversation with Brad also. Part of the difficulty in getting clear answers is that the Clubs themselves would like to believe that he spent time on site, and nobody is still alive who was there at the time. Anecdotal recollections grow over time. The best source of verifiable info is old news articles, but Ross was not so famous in his early years that a local paper would mention a visit.”

He suggested the Tuffs Library which I have spent quite a bit of time at over the years when working on Ross projects.  They have more info on Ross than most anywhere. There is a lot at The Golf House as well in NJ.


Mark

Mark, I went back and looked, but the misconception is that people think he wanted domed greens. He didn't and when it became what it became at Pinehurst #2 because of the top dressing, it wasn't his intention.  The Pete Dye story I recall was further evidence of this.
With oiled sand greens you can't have much undulations at all due to erosion obviously, almost always they are flat as I'm sure the original Pinehurst #2 were. So when the bermuda conversion happened the heavy topdressing caused more domed shape.  I have played a lot of sand golf where I live and it is very difficult to have any undulations on them at all due to any rain causing huge problems.
I think a whole other thread can perhaps can be devoted to oiled sand greens.

[Tom_Doak]

I recall seeing TD's Legends course in Myrtle Beach.  One thing that struck me as different was that some of the tees were mowed well off the top line of the level tee, very old style. It made the pushed up tee look like a domed tee with different mowing.  Maybe someday, Tom will have a thread about how misunderstood his tees were...….

I really liked those tees, and yes, those mowing lines were my idea.  [I wonder if they have survived to the present?  It's been 15 years since I was there.] 


The tees had to be huge because of the 60,000 rounds per year, and I was trying desperately to find ways to break up the flat.


One of my favorite parts of that design was that the 9th and 11th holes shared tees.  The back tee for the 11th was the middle tee for the 9th, and vice versa.  [They were very wide, and you played off the different ends for the different holes, kind of a play on the double greens from St. Andrews.]

[Jeff_Brauer]

I liked them, too.  Alas, no client ever thinks the same, so far anyway.  Overall, I have seen anything quirky with tees get abandoned as much as little used sand bunkers.  On free form tees, we would sometimes instruct the steeper slope connectors between two area be mowed as tee.  One client was really blunt - "Only an idiot would recommend tee level maintenance on an area that can't be used as teeing space!"  I have sort of shied away from them after that...….


Although, I will say that some superintendents like to mow slightly over the edge, especially at the low side, to assure the taller outside cut doesn't slow down drainage.

[Sven Nilsen]

Jeff,
Then you must have a typo in the first sentence of your earlier post. 


Sven,
This is what Gerry said to me.  Gerry was the President of the Ross Society.  I am not sure who is now, didn’t look.


“Mark, To your question, I have had that conversation with Brad also. Part of the difficulty in getting clear answers is that the Clubs themselves would like to believe that he spent time on site, and nobody is still alive who was there at the time. Anecdotal recollections grow over time. The best source of verifiable info is old news articles, but Ross was not so famous in his early years that a local paper would mention a visit.”

He suggested the Tuffs Library which I have spent quite a bit of time at over the years when working on Ross projects.  They have more info on Ross than most anywhere. There is a lot at The Golf House as well in NJ.


Mark

Mark: 


Thanks for your pointers on where to research Ross.


You might want to check out the lead in text to the DRS Course Listing, specifically the second full paragraph.  There are a couple of bits of info in there you might find interesting.  We, and the DRS, have learned a good bit in the last several years.


https://rosssociety.org/resources/Documents/Ross%20Course%20List/Final%20Ross%20course%20list%20Dec%202018.pdf


Sven