Turnberry Ailsa - A Pictorial Tour

[Bryan Izatt]

According to Wikipedia "The Trump Organization is a group of about 500 business entities of which Donald Trump is the sole or principal owner. About 250 of these entities use the Trump name. The organization was founded in 1923 by Donald Trump's grandmother, Elizabeth Christ Trump, and father, Fred Trump, as E. Trump & Son. Donald Trump began leading it in 1971, renamed it around 1973, and handed off its leadership to his children in 2017."

The last point is about leadership, not ownership.

[Michael Whitaker]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

[Mark Pearce]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

Fair enough Mike.  But we were responding to the absurd suggestion that boycotting Trump's courses because he's the owner is inconsistent with playing clubs which might have members with political views we don't agree with.  If I didn't play anywhere where there were members with views I find abhorrent, I doubt there's a club in the UK I could confidently play. 

[Bill Gayne]

Bryan,


Thanks for posting. Ailsa checked all the boxes for me and worthy of the recognition it receives. The only nit-pick (yes it's a nit-pick) is the creek running in front of the green on 16. The creek is literally on the front edge of the green. I would rather have seen the green about 10 yards back to allow some margin for error. With the green hard against the creek it forces the aerial shot in on an inherently windy site.


I've played one round at Troon, Ailsa, and Prestwick and loved all three courses. I'm going to commit heresy and say that if i was given the opportunity to go back and play one round on these three courses it would be Ailsa. [size=78%] [/size]


Bill

[Lou_Duran]

Heresy Bill?  Nonsense.  Excellent golf acumen.  I played the three in short order with the author and would love to go back, though I'd hope for better weather conditions at Prestwick.  I preferred the more of a private club experience at Troon, but it is hard to argue against the natural beauty along with similarly strong championship qualities of Trump Turnberry.     

[Bryan Izatt]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

No, there is nothing unusual at all about branding sports venues, although it's less common, I think, on golf courses.  No need to Wiki. My negative feelings about the owner and my wish to not recommend an otherwise fine golf course to others has nothing to do with the brand name of the place.  It has everything to do with the reprehensible character of the owner.  Are there no places you avoid because of the ownership?

[Bryan Izatt]

Bill,


Re your nit-pick, I thought the burn added some variety to the approach shots as there are lots of opportunities to run the ball on other greens.  Its proximity to the green is not unlike the 1st at TOC.


Over the years I've played Troon once, Ailsa twice and Prestwick 10+ times.  I guess that shows where my tastes lie.  Quirky and fun trump championship golf. Location, accessibility, and price also factor in.


Lou,


That was a good golf trip and a pretty good trifecta of courses with Western Gailes and Glasgow Gailes thrown in for good measure in Ayrshire.  We are fortunate indeed. 

[Lou_Duran]

Bryan,


If most people avoided the work or product of others whose politics or personal behavior offended their sensibilities, they would be missing many enjoyable experiences.  I doubt that your boycott or recommendations move the needle, so, as I stated earlier in this thread, your Trump comments were and remain gratuitous and not even good virtue signaling.  Maybe you gain some psychic relief in repeating your attacks on our president's character, but are there not some diminishing returns at work here?  How many more times should we expect your "Trump Sucks" mantra?  CLARIFICATION: AT THE REQUEST OF MR. IZATT, I DON'T REMEMBER HIM EVER SAYING "TRUMP SUCKS" SPECIFICALLY.  MY USE OF QUOTES DOES NOT CONSTITUTE "FAKE NEWS", IMO, BUT BENIGNLY SUMMARIZES HIS FEELINGS FOR THE MAN EXPRESSED TO ME ON MANY, MANY OCCASIONS.   

BTW, as soon as they let me in the country, i'm going to try to return to Trump Aberdeen, provided that they still honor the Highlands member rate.  At around £120 last time, I'd stay in the area for a week if allowed.  I may like it better than Ailsa; certainly a World Top 100.  And unlike a few of the top links I've visited, no airs or unnecessary bending of the knee are required.  Can't wait.

[Sean_A]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

No, there is nothing unusual at all about branding sports venues, although it's less common, I think, on golf courses.  No need to Wiki. My negative feelings about the owner and my wish to not recommend an otherwise fine golf course to others has nothing to do with the brand name of the place.  It has everything to do with the reprehensible character of the owner.  Are there no places you avoid because of the ownership?

I don't recall avoiding a place because of the owner, though I don't think such behaviour is all too rare. Going forward, I hope my President doesn't behave in a way which compels people to avoid businesses he owns. It was one thing when Trump was NY's asshat. Now that Trump represents all Americans its quite another thing.

Ciao

[Mark Fedeli]

Anyone who boycotts something they might enjoy because they find the behavior or activities of its owner to be morally or ethically abhorrent should feel proud that they actually have the stones to stand up for something, even if they don't boycott everything they'd like to. Never lose sight of that in the face of those who seek to trivialize it. The world is filled with too many people who think that taking the middle path or sitting on the fence is a position to be admired for its restraint, but too often it's just a sign of passivity and privilege. Believe in things passionately. The world is grey, but it isn't as complicated as the gatekeepers would have you think. When in doubt, err on the side of kindness, justice, and righteousness.


Oh, and also:



After a recent Scotland trip I posted a thread here comparing the experiences of Brora vs Ailsa. For my ten rounds, Brora would win 7-3. Ailsa is a fine course, but too much of it feels like a new build — like it belongs in conversation with Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart, where I have it ranking a close 3rd because I cannot remember it having many "fun" shot opportunities. There were some terrific views and heroic carries, to be sure, but not nearly enough quirky links or fun ground shots to play.


Bryan, thank you so much for posting this terrific tour. Admittedly, outside of the few holes by the lighthouse, I found Turnberry to be, in the literal sense, one of the least memorable of the 20 or so courses I've played in Scotland. It was good to be reminded of some of the features that I struggled to hold in my mind.

[Bryan Izatt]

Lou,


You read too much in.  It's really quite simple. I had no intention of moving anybody's needle. I'd appreciate it if you would remove the quotation marks at the end of the first paragraph - those are not my words.  You wouldn't want to propogate fake news.


I hope you hurry back.  They could surely use your money. The two clubs have lost money every year since he took over and this year promises to be worse by a lot.

[Ben Stephens]

Looking at this really good thread (well done Bryan!) and bearing in mind the amount of money they put in for this course. Would the course be better if they used some of the Robert the Bruce coastal holes to maximise the number of holes on the coastal edge and get rid of holes one and two with the course starting on hole 3 with the tee closer to the 18th green?


I actually played the previous course with David Nelson on the last day it was open prior to full closure due to re-construction and could see the new 9th green and 14th hole which gorse bushes was being cleared and you could see a skyline green location. 


Still would have preferred 9 to be a risk and reward short par 4 which is sadly lacking at many Open venues.

[Thomas Dai]

As an aside to this excellent photo-tour thread by Bryan here are a few old b&w photos of Turnberry some now with colour added to them.
Enjoy.
atb

[Michael Whitaker]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

No, there is nothing unusual at all about branding sports venues, although it's less common, I think, on golf courses.  No need to Wiki. My negative feelings about the owner and my wish to not recommend an otherwise fine golf course to others has nothing to do with the brand name of the place.  It has everything to do with the reprehensible character of the owner.  Are there no places you avoid because of the ownership?

Bryan - I guess I am the shallowest of fellows, because I don't think I have ever consciously avoided a business or product because of the ownership. The closest my family has come is that we do not purchase diamonds. Do you purchase diamonds?

AND... every sports venue (stadium, ballpark, pitch, arena, etc) I know of is sponsored by some company. I doubt I would boycott a sporting event that I really wanted to attend (a football championship, for example) just because the stadium was named after a person or company with which I took issue. But, that's me. Like I said, I'm obviously very shallow.

[Bryan Izatt]

Dai,

Thanks for posting the old colorized pictures.  I particularly liked the colouring of the first one.




The other one of The Plateau Green from 1911 I believe shows the site of the current 16th green that Bill was nit-picking     about the burn a few posts ago.  Here's the original black and white of it followed by your colourized version.

[Bryan Izatt]

Mike,


We've met and played golf a number of times over the years and I'd never describe you as a shallow man.  I assume that by not purchasing diamonds you are taking a principled stand against something (blood diamonds?).  I haven't bought a diamond since my then fiance loaned me some money to buy her an engagement ring some 50 years ago.  All kinds of people take principled stands for and against all kinds of things - good for them.  It makes them neither deeper or shallower than any others.


A long time ago I used to be a season ticket holder to the local football team but their stadium wasn't sponsored by anybody in those days. I attended a few very expensive Maple Leaf hockey games in those days as well, but that arena wasn't sponsored then either.  I've been to the Canadian open a few times in recent years but it's been sponsored by my bank so that's all good.  We've been to a few Maple Leaf games in Florida at the BB&T Center in recent years.  I believe that's a bank sponsor, but I'm not sure.  Long story short, I don't attend a lot of live sporting events so it's never really been an issue deciding if I'd want to boycott an event because of the stadium's sponsor.  I'd suggest there is a difference between a stadium sponsor and a franchise owner though.


For whatever it's worth I don't boycott anywhere else although I don't go back to my local Subway or Pizza Pizza because I don't like the service at either.


I wasn't suggesting any moral superiority regarding my stand about Trump golf courses.  I assume you are not serious in your self-deprecation.
 

[Sean_A]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

No, there is nothing unusual at all about branding sports venues, although it's less common, I think, on golf courses.  No need to Wiki. My negative feelings about the owner and my wish to not recommend an otherwise fine golf course to others has nothing to do with the brand name of the place.  It has everything to do with the reprehensible character of the owner.  Are there no places you avoid because of the ownership?

Bryan - I guess I am the shallowest of fellows, because I don't think I have ever consciously avoided a business or product because of the ownership. The closest my family has come is that we do not purchase diamonds. Do you purchase diamonds?

AND... every sports venue (stadium, ballpark, pitch, arena, etc) I know of is sponsored by some company. I doubt I would boycott a sporting event that I really wanted to attend (a football championship, for example) just because the stadium was named after a person or company with which I took issue. But, that's me. Like I said, I'm obviously very shallow.

Oh no, a self proclaimed nick name...Shallow Whitty?

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

Guys, I’m not a fan of Donald Trump... just trying to point out that if Hilton purchased Gleneagles they would put their name on the place. It’s called branding. Trump Organization owns 19 golf facilities worldwide. They are all part of the same stable. Nothing unusual about an individual putting his name on his business entities or products. There are hundreds of examples. Wiki that, Bryan.

No, there is nothing unusual at all about branding sports venues, although it's less common, I think, on golf courses.  No need to Wiki. My negative feelings about the owner and my wish to not recommend an otherwise fine golf course to others has nothing to do with the brand name of the place.  It has everything to do with the reprehensible character of the owner.  Are there no places you avoid because of the ownership?

Bryan - I guess I am the shallowest of fellows, because I don't think I have ever consciously avoided a business or product because of the ownership. The closest my family has come is that we do not purchase diamonds. Do you purchase diamonds?

AND... every sports venue (stadium, ballpark, pitch, arena, etc) I know of is sponsored by some company. I doubt I would boycott a sporting event that I really wanted to attend (a football championship, for example) just because the stadium was named after a person or company with which I took issue. But, that's me. Like I said, I'm obviously very shallow.

Oh no, a self proclaimed nick name...Shallow Whitty?

Ciao

Really? to this day I have always questioned Whitty's shallow handicap for our match at Notts during BUDA like Bryan said I can't picture you as a shallow person and have always enjoyed your company at BUDA's and follow Clemson College 'American' Football results because of you.


Trump - IMO he is an egomaniac with a questionably low IQ enough said would't pay the green fees just to play Turnberry now and would rather play elsewhere where my contribution would be more beneficial for them rather than line up the Don's pockets.