If we can't slow down the ball how about we use fewer clubs

[archie_struthers]

 


Need a new carry bag,  mine is a little too heavy in wet damp weather so I've gone with an eight or nine club bag on my late afternoon strolls. Threw  three wedges, a four, six , eight iron in back of the Jeep and went to 54 degree w 5/7/9 irons as weapons of choice. Just requires a little more skill but definitely changes the bomb and gauge mentality.


Perhaps it could work, hard to  get sued over this one!


I'm thinking ten clubs works about perfect, pick your weapons wisely!

[Scott Warren]

Archie,

I love this idea.

My push is for 10 clubs maximum and, putter aside, nothing under 12* loft or over 56* loft.

If you assume a driver, putter and two clubs (PW and SW) between 45 and 56 degrees, you've got six clubs left to choose between three wood and nine iron.

I ran it by PGA Tour player Jim Herman in another forum and his view was that a 10-club limit would matter at least 2-3 shots a round in Florida where it's all played in the air, but less so on firmer courses.

He said 10 clubs was an interesting number because 12 wouldn't affect the winning score of a PGA Tour event but that 8 would affect every player in every round.

I personally am engaged in a constant internal fight between loving carrying 10 or 11 clubs and feeling like I need 13 in the bag around my home course to play/score my best.

[archie_struthers]

 


Scott, I'm liking my 3 rescue a lot these days as I can hit it from about 190-215. Think that 10 is a good number also. Going to make wedge game a little more interesting for most !

[Tom_Doak]

Having played a lot with less than a full set, I would suggest a max of seven clubs if you want to see good players have to re-learn some shotmaking skills.  With ten or twelve, they're still going to have a lot of wedges in the bag at most courses, because they'll still be bombing drives to within wedge distance on the par-4 holes.


Expect the manufacturers to scream bloody murder, in proportion to the number of clubs reduced from what was previously considered a "full" set.

[Carl Rogers]

I go with 9 clubs.
Putter, Driver, 22 deg fairway, 27 deg hybrid, (irons; 32, 38, 44 & 50 deg) & lower lofted Lob Wedge.
Being a super senior, the larger gaps fit well with a loss of distance.

[Brock Lynch]

I've played 100 holes raising funds for my HS golf team a couple of times about 5 years ago. Removed the even irons making a 10-club set so that I could increase my chances of finishing. It didn't seem to affect my scoring at all. In normal situations, I would feel like I was going to need one of the "missing" clubs. For once, I agree with Mr. Doak, club manufacturers would scream bloody murder. Seven clubs would be interesting. It would be a large departure from what we're used to, but it would make the game more interesting. I would be interested in what 7 clubs you guys would pick. As for the pros, anything less than 14 would bring scores up.

[jeffwarne]

Expect the manufacturers to scream bloody murder, in proportion to the number of clubs reduced from what was previously considered a "full" set.

and the above is why it will not happen.
Going to less than 14 clubs might introduce some shotmaking skill, but will NOT reduce the scale of the game and would further encourage bombing as a skill or natural selection of players  to get within wedge range.
At the elite level, more players would evolve or be selected that drive their approach within one of several wedges, than would develop the shotmaking skills to survive with in between clubs.


It's fun playing with 6-7 clubs, something I've been resigned to the last few months when my back has allowed me to play.
The good news is putting with a driver saves the back and a club!

[Carl Rogers]

As for the pros, anything less than 14 would bring scores up.

Having fewer wedges would make the short game a lot more interesting.

[Sean_A]

Expect the manufacturers to scream bloody murder, in proportion to the number of clubs reduced from what was previously considered a "full" set.

and the above is why it will not happen.
Going to less than 14 clubs might introduce some shotmaking skill, but will NOT reduce the scale of the game and would further encourage bombing as a skill or natural selection of players  to get within wedge range.
At the elite level, more players would evolve or be selected that drive their approach within one of several wedges, than would develop the shotmaking skills to survive with in between clubs.

It's fun playing with 6-7 clubs, something I've been resigned to the last few months when my back has allowed me to play.
The good news is putting with a driver saves the back and a club!

But, there would be less high loft clubs in the bag to deal with the rough.

I also don't think golfers would necessarily spend less money on clubs because many would tailor their bag for the course and weather.

I am all for an elite golfer bifurcated rule of 8 clubs between the lofts of 15 and 50.

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

There was a thread on this subject (and not for the first time!) back in January:

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67941.0.html
 

[Thomas Dai]

Expect the manufacturers to scream bloody murder, in proportion to the number of clubs reduced from what was previously considered a "full" set.

and the above is why it will not happen.
Going to less than 14 clubs might introduce some shotmaking skill, but will NOT reduce the scale of the game and would further encourage bombing as a skill or natural selection of players  to get within wedge range.
At the elite level, more players would evolve or be selected that drive their approach within one of several wedges, than would develop the shotmaking skills to survive with in between clubs.
It's fun playing with 6-7 clubs, something I've been resigned to the last few months when my back has allowed me to play.
The good news is putting with a driver saves the back and a club!

I would love something akin to this to officially happen but am not holding my breath.
Jeffs comment about not reducing bombing amongst elite players is an interesting one. Such might not effect them but it ought to significantly effect Mr or Master Average-Amateur who is big and strong and occasionally hits it 300 but usually way off line. Might reduce the envelope of his misses too which would be good for safety, insurance etc.
Generally speaking it’s about time the manufacturers were told to bugger off and the best way to do it is not to buy their products!
The game is more important than the manufacturers and does the latest allegedly amazing super whizzo driver from Company X or Company Y really go any further or is easier to hit than the the club they brought to market six months ago? Doubt it, especially in the hands of Mr or Mrs Average-Amateur. Applies to irons etc as well.
One of the best ways to tell the manufacturers to bugger off is not to buy their new club products. Buy secondhand, even their previous model secondhand and just a few months old. Save yourself a bunch of cash too which you can spend on greenfees and golf trips and the like.
As to me, I’ve only being carrying between 7-9 clubs for a few years now and when I switched to carrying less clubs my handicap dropped.
As an aside, limiting the height of the tee-peg mightn’t be a bad thing as well.
Atb


See also - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,56069.0.html

[archie_struthers]

 


Missed Ward's earlier posts regarding this!


It's a good one though. For me, if I could still play I might have five wedges, rather than the four I now have in my bag. Perhaps they just limit the number of clubs in ten degree increments at two.  It would achieve the purpose we are looking for, which of course is rewarding skill of the player over the manufacturer.


As to the club companies screaming perhaps not, as they would charge the same price for ten clubs as they do for more today, and drivers and wedges would continue to be so important. Maybe more so. It might even have some players looking at softer golf balls that they could control better and not just the longest ones.

[Niall C]

As I probably posted the last time, my best ever round in competition playing off the medal tees at Silloth was in the 5 club comp. You definitely have to be a bit creative and you also tend to think more about the consequences of where your ball might end up with a bad shot.

As to the manufacturers, I suspect they might find a way of making it work. After all fewer clubs in a set should mean less for a set and then maybe more folk might buy new and more often.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

As I probably posted the last time, my best ever round in competition playing off the medal tees at Silloth was in the 5 club comp. You definitely have to be a bit creative and you also tend to think more about the consequences of where your ball might end up with a bad shot.

It's a lot easier to play approach shots with the "wrong" club on a links course than here in America.  In the UK, few of the greens require a carry-and-stop approach, but U.S. courses are full of them, and it's hard to take something off a 5-iron, still be sure you clear a pond, AND get it to stop.


Which is why I don't design golf holes like that   

[Duncan Cheslett]

With seven clubs a tour pro's bag would look something like;


Driver
9-iron
PW
GW
SW
LW
Putter


Some might exchange a wedge for a 5-iron for the second shot into par 5s.

[Jeff Schley]

Some of you may have seen Nick Faldo's idea of banning the use of a tee!  Have to play off the deck for every tee shot.  It was in golf digest or magazine, I forget this past month.

[Carl Johnson]

Not sure about slowing down the ball (personally I could use a speeded up ball).  When our club went to walking-only about 6 weeks or so ago, I got out my old little bag, which many call a Sunday bag, and use just four clubs.  22 degree hybrid, six iron, 52 wedge and putter.  Frankly, I can play as well with those four clubs as with 14.


I use the hybrid mostly: off the tee, fairway shots, and rolling long approaches to the green.  52 degree next.  I can't get more than about 90 yards with a full swing, but I can open it to varying degrees for short pitches and lobs.  Six iron -- full and low punch shots.


One thing I've learned about myself is that having to use clubs different ways makes me think more about what I'm doing, and really focus on pulling the shot off.  I've found it to be fun and am likely to stick with this plan when, if ever, I can get back to friendly competition with other ancient golfers.

[jeffwarne]

Expect the manufacturers to scream bloody murder, in proportion to the number of clubs reduced from what was previously considered a "full" set.

and the above is why it will not happen.
Going to less than 14 clubs might introduce some shotmaking skill, but will NOT reduce the scale of the game and would further encourage bombing as a skill or natural selection of players  to get within wedge range.
At the elite level, more players would evolve or be selected that drive their approach within one of several wedges, than would develop the shotmaking skills to survive with in between clubs.

It's fun playing with 6-7 clubs, something I've been resigned to the last few months when my back has allowed me to play.
The good news is putting with a driver saves the back and a club!

But, there would be less high loft clubs in the bag to deal with the rough.



I am all for an elite golfer bifurcated rule of 8 clubs between the lofts of 15 and 50.

Ciao

Doubt they would give up ther less lofted clubs-that's all they use anyway, and as I said, the elite would evolve or be selected to have games where 320 was the norm and one of 3 wedges was the approach, leaving 5 clubs for the few other approaches(seconds on par 5's, par 3's.
We're already there for the most part.


Capping loft at 50 is interesting but you simply see a low/variable bounce 50 that could easily be opened to 60 or more and maybe another with 48 and some bounce for other bunker shots.


The 10 club thing is cool and interesting, but would not change much for the elite.
The example of 2-3 shots MIGHT be true for JIm Hermann, but if so, he would be driven off the tour and replaced by someone who bombed it into one of three wedges land.
Scores wouldn't be "2-3" shots higher for the field and those who it cost 2-3 shots would just fall off the tour., replaced by bombers-at a faster rate then currently. Shotmakers in between clubs from 180 aren't going to beat DJ with a gap wedge at 130.


Seems SOOOO much more complicated than tweaking the ball at the elite level.
Which would affect the manufacturers who hold the puppert strings far less.
Imagine if baseball only allowed one size/weight bat for all players rather than tweaking the ball (as they do)
Less home runs would be hit, but would the game be better?

[Niall C]

With seven clubs a tour pro's bag would look something like;


Driver
9-iron
PW
GW
SW
LW
Putter


Some might exchange a wedge for a 5-iron for the second shot into par 5s.

With 5 clubs the 10 handicappers bag looked something like this IIRC

5 wood
5 iron
7 iron
sand wedge or wedge (can't recall which)
putter

It's fair to say the 5 wood and putter got the most use.

Niall

[Jamie Pyper]

One benefit of this current slowdown was having the time to refinish my hickory clubs, which I intend to use much more going forward. Nine club max plus my Steurer and Jacoby stand in my leather Mackenzie bag and walking much more is my new found resolution if and when I get back on a course. I've not found a better high in golf than pulling off a shot off with a hickory, and using limited clubs make shotmaking more satisfying.

[Mark Mammel]

I think the 8-10 club bag is especially good for older players- I have had 2 back surgeries (with excellent result) and my surgeon told me not to carry anything over 20 pounds. I have a Ping Sunday bag with 2 straps, which is better weight distribution for me, and a MacKenzie version of the MickleStix (Jay, you were out when I tried to get one of yours!). I can take 8 clubs and still walk and carry rather than use some kind of push cart. Kind of like being a kids on the course again, finding a way to make the clubs you have work!

[Bruce Katona]

A five club bag for me would be:


4 wood
5 iron
7 or 8 iron (i chip with both)
wedge
putter

[Padraig Dooley]

With seven clubs a tour pro's bag would look something like;


Driver
9-iron
PW
GW
SW
LW
Putter


Some might exchange a wedge for a 5-iron for the second shot into par 5s.

Duncan, that maybe the perception but scoring for pros comes from playing par 5s well and parring par 3s, so a 7 club bag would be much more focused on 180-220 then from 30-120 yards. They wouldn't need the wedges at all, just a lob wedge for the shots around the green.

[archie_struthers]

 




Here's how I see the new tour bag with ten club limit


Driver/ putter


strong rescue 15-17 degrees


weak rescue 20-25 degrees   (think Ray Floyd 7 wood in Masters) sorry young bucks gotta google that one


6/7/8/9 irons


52/56 degree wedges


that's ten/ gotta think it's hard to find much better mix they still have some 140-180 yard shots out there.  Might change equipment with temperature and conditions and at different venues. But for sure more skill and strategy comes back in vogue ...I'm not buying that smash and gauge trumps all anymore, disagree with TD that they would just have as many wedges


Again....no lawsuits and no loss in revenue for club companies ...might even sell a softer ball for more spin

[John Emerson]

I love love love playing with less clubs!!  Choked down half swings with any iron is my favorite.  You have to have imagination and multiple swing skills in order to play with less clubs and I love this!  Driver, 3w, hybrid 5,7,9, pw, 56, 60, P is the norm for me.