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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Total Karma: -1
Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« on: May 06, 2020, 10:37:05 AM »
The former Oaks Cliff CC in Dallas, TX, designed by Perry & Press Maxwell in 1953, now known as GC of Dallas,


https://www.golfclubdallas.com/




https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2020/05/megachurch-buys-former-oak-cliff-country-club/
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Peter Pallotta

Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 10:53:55 AM »
And suddenly everyone *can* hit a 1 iron!

JMEvensky

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 11:13:42 AM »



And suddenly everyone *can* hit a 1 iron!




nice

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 11:18:30 AM »

They say golf is a religious experience.....


It could actually be a prototype - save the club from its oversized clubhouse by turning it into a religious center, and perhaps even get some tax benefits out of it?


On topic, we did a master plan there years ago.  The club had done 2 greens in house and they were terrible.  Later, the club called Charlie Coody, the old PGA golfer from Abilene, KS to redo it to his own master plan. Neither mine nor his followed the Maxwell ideals.



I recall one of the old members dissing the Maxwell greens.  It wasn't Perry, it was Press.  He said Press was on site only a few days, and told his shapers, "Give me the 2 mounder here, 3 mounder there, and a few 4 mounders around the course."  I.e., he had his 4-6 template greens and used them over and over.


Edit: According to Chris Clouser and his book the "Midwest Associate" Perry routed the course, but Press did construction.  He says there were 11 template holes, the most of any of his later courses, sort of confirming the member's idea that he was using standard greens.  Not sure of the accuracy of his characterizations as 1-4 mound greens, but that was his recollection.


It is a nice routing.


Also, it was one of the courses where I measured how much back to front slope was required for average golfers to hold greens.  The 12th was one I measured and it was less than 1% and no one could hold it.  16 was about 1.33%, on a much longer shot, and it held fine, thus setting my concept of minimum 1.33% or greater on the back to front slope, adjusted a bit for downhill and downwind, when necessary.


Lastly, the 18th was a tweener 4-5, and I recall redrawing it about five times, prompting me to put a clause in my next renovation contract that concepts were limited to a maximum of three, although, the argued there were just 2 concepts, and they just changed their minds twice on each.....
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 11:30:31 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ian Mackenzie

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 11:56:35 AM »
Just what the bible envisioned....a church so flush with cash that, instead of providing for the poor, it can provide recreation for its parishioners.


"Little pink houses for you and me...."


No, I get it; it's an investment that with a cash yield component...sure, sure...;-)


Probably easy to get a tee time on Sunday morning...;-)

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 12:18:12 PM »
Sounds similar to what was done out at Ko’olau Golf Club on O'ahu years ago.   The private club struggled/went under, and i think had a couple of iterations before a local church stepped in and bought the clubhouse (to use as a church) and the grounds.   The church has repurposed most of the very lavish original clubhouse into some unique spaces for worship and community service, etc.   I believe they lease out the area that is now the proshop and the course to another entity (but I may be wrong about this arrangement).  But it has allowed this course that probably otherwise would NLE to survive with this symbiotic relationship.



Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 12:26:38 PM »
Yikes. Never occured to me. Hope the profits,if there are any, go to some local social service agency rather than filling the church coffers.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

JMEvensky

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 12:27:18 PM »
Just what the bible envisioned....a church so flush with cash that, instead of providing for the poor, it can provide recreation for its parishioners.


"Little pink houses for you and me...."


No, I get it; it's an investment that with a cash yield component...sure, sure...;-)


Probably easy to get a tee time on Sunday morning...;-)





The Prosperity Gospel?

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2020, 12:42:40 PM »
This is nothing, you should read up on how far a certain SLC based church has spread its tentacles into all kinds of business pursuits...

Joe Perches

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2020, 12:47:33 PM »

Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2020, 01:14:57 PM »
I just hope Two Corinthians can walk into the bar. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2020, 01:36:11 PM »
As long as they don’t play miniature golf.

Tim Leahy

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2020, 01:53:25 PM »
Will they use water hazards for baptisms? ;D
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

V. Kmetz

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2020, 02:26:27 PM »
Will they use water hazards for baptisms? ;D


A true penalty area!
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 12
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2020, 02:39:11 PM »
Sounds similar to what was done out at Ko’olau Golf Club on O'ahu years ago.   The private club struggled/went under, and i think had a couple of iterations before a local church stepped in and bought the clubhouse (to use as a church) and the grounds.   The church has repurposed most of the very lavish original clubhouse into some unique spaces for worship and community service, etc.   I believe they lease out the area that is now the proshop and the course to another entity (but I may be wrong about this arrangement).  But it has allowed this course that probably otherwise would NLE to survive with this symbiotic relationship.




This was my first thought, too.  I was really confused when I drove into that place, not knowing what had happened.  But it certainly made sense -- the clubhouse was massive.  I have no idea what the original Japanese developer thought people were going to do in there.

Tim Martin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2020, 02:48:10 PM »
Confessional Country Club

Eric Smith

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2020, 02:54:58 PM »
Are you Roman Catholic?

JC Jones

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2020, 02:57:54 PM »
Are you Roman Catholic?


Im sorry, but Im afraid you cant come.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2020, 03:37:21 PM »
Will they use water hazards for baptisms? ;D



I recall interviewing for that circa 1986-8(?) master plan. In the clubhouse, they mentioned there was only one sacred feature I shouldn't recommend they touch, a pond on 15.  So, we go out there, and it turned out to be a 2 foot deep concrete lined pond that shut off the entry to the green, as bad a feature as I had ever seen on a golf course.  So, for that plan, it stayed, but I do note it is gone now.  Not sure if they finally realized how bad it was, or if it was just constructed so badly in house that it never held water anyway.


Another example of how clubs back then "poor boyed" it, the maintenance building actually had a major drainage swale running right through it, and one rainy day, I actually saw them open up the front and back doors to let the water through.  It's in the same spot, but I don't know from the aerial if it is the same building or if it has been replaced.


Had the pond still remained, it probably could be a good baptism venue! 
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

SL_Solow

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2020, 03:50:28 PM »
Lawsonia has been owned by a Baptist organization since the mid 1930's

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Total Karma: -1
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Will Lozier

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2020, 12:10:39 AM »

(They) made it clear that they want to see the golf course remain intact and plan to work on making it the focal point of the community like it has been in the past.

Hope Faxon isn't a member of the congregation. ::)

JJShanley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2020, 01:53:16 AM »
Will they use water hazards for baptisms? ;D


Of course, our lot have the finest Catholic owned golf course in all of Indiana.

John Emerson

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2020, 02:51:19 PM »
Great, a tax generating golf course now doesn’t have to pay taxes.  What a sham
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Mega Church Buys Golf Course !
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2020, 03:24:24 PM »
Just what the bible envisioned....a church so flush with cash that, instead of providing for the poor, it can provide recreation for its parishioners.


"Little pink houses for you and me...."


No, I get it; it's an investment that with a cash yield component...sure, sure...;-)


Probably easy to get a tee time on Sunday morning...;-)


In all fairness, the game hadn't been invented yet when Jesus lived. He may have loved it.


Would have been tough getting 3 foursomes together since they'd have an odd number of 13. Thankfully Judas eventually dropped out