Which existing course on a terrific site ....

[Thomas Dai]

Which existing course on a terrific site would you most like to see given a really significant upgrade? An upgrade that could transform it into being something really, really special.
I reckon I’d select the Cashen course at Ballybunion.
Atb

[Tommy Williamsen]

Which existing course on a terrific site would you most like to see given a really significant upgrade? An upgrade that could transform it into being something really, really special.
I reckon I’d select the Cashen course at Ballybunion.
Atb

Given the size and tightness of the dunes, can there be a significant upgrade without the extensive use of a bulldozer?

[Ian Mackenzie]

1. Old Head


2. European Club


3. Nantucket Golf Club


4. Brora - take all the momentum from Coul, put it into Brora, buy the club and make the course even more spectacular.


5. Half Moon Bay Ocean Course

[Adrian_Stiff]

Burnham & Berrow

[Sean_A]

Burnham & Berrow

+1.  I think if the course was redesigned as new, a better course is sitting on that land.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

1. Old Head


2. European Club


3. Nantucket Golf Club


4. Brora - take all the momentum from Coul, put it into Brora, buy the club and make the course even more spectacular.


5. Half Moon Bay Ocean Course

Plase spare Brora this....
what an odd group to tbe lumped in with

[Simon Holt]

I was thinking about this the other day in terms of which courses with a bit of polish could really be enhanced.


I wouldn't touch the routings:


Kawana - Japanese culture is very much against taking out trees but with some clearing along the coast and some polish I think this could be a real star.


Utrecht de Pan - again, great routing and this one simply needs to trim some trees.  Great to see it appearing on lists again.  Big thanks to David Davis for recommending a visit to the Netherlands.


Both just one time visits but I left wanting to go back.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Suspect most would say Torrey Pines.  I know Rees did it again to make it more US Open ready, and other changes made to the North course, but neither ever reflected in the original design anything that would suggest they were on a spectacular site near the ocean.  They were standard issue golf courses on a spectacular site.

[Ian Mackenzie]

1. Old Head


2. European Club


3. Nantucket Golf Club


4. Brora - take all the momentum from Coul, put it into Brora, buy the club and make the course even more spectacular.


5. Half Moon Bay Ocean Course

Plase spare Brora this....
what an odd group to tbe lumped in with

Sure...tell that to their balance sheet.

[Mark Pearce]

1. Old Head


2. European Club


3. Nantucket Golf Club


4. Brora - take all the momentum from Coul, put it into Brora, buy the club and make the course even more spectacular.


5. Half Moon Bay Ocean Course

Plase spare Brora this....
what an odd group to tbe lumped in with

Sure...tell that to their balance sheet.

What an odd comment.  Brora has a fine course and, without a pandemic, a balance sheet better than most in the area.  The course doesn't need an upgrade, nor would an "upgrade" change the balance sheet.

[Mark Pearce]

Noordwijkse.  World class land.  Very good course which could be world class.

[Kalen Braley]

A couple of Oregon courses...Sand Pines and Bandon Dunes! 

[Ira Fishman]

Congressional Blue


Ira

[Ally Mcintosh]

I certainly wouldn’t touch Brora. I wouldn’t touch The European either.


You can argue about Pat Ruddy’s style for the land but it’s his style and the perfect example of his architecture. We need some courses to be left as examples of original architecture.

[Mike Hendren]

Fazio's Camp Creek in the Florida Panhandle. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Wolf Run

[Matt_Cohn]

I don't know if it quite counts as terrific site, but I'd offer Crystal Springs in Burlingame (just south of San Francisco), CA. One side is a freeway, but the other side is a reservoir/forest/protected land, and there isn't a house on the property and never will be. It was originally a Fowler design and it's not a bad course, but it's definitely run down and not equal to the opportunity of the site.

[jeffwarne]

I certainly wouldn’t touch Brora. I wouldn’t touch The European either.


You can argue about Pat Ruddy’s style for the land but it’s his style and the perfect example of his architecture. We need some courses to be left as examples of original architecture.

Especially one where the architect is on site and operating it!
It's his vision and the man himself is a big part of the appeal and the draw.


I wonder how many long time Ballybunion members wouldn't like to return their club to the simplicity and relative quiet of Brora...

[JC Jones]

Can you imagine how great Cypress would be if they went to the ocean first via 18 corridor?

[Kalen Braley]

Can you imagine how great Cypress would be if they went to the ocean first via 18 corridor?

Maybe almost as good as Spyglass Hill?  Instead they opt'd for the greatest 17 hole course in the world...

[Bernie Bell]

Rum Pointe outside of Ocean City MD (Pete and PB Dye) is on a pretty cool rolling mostly open property with views of the Bay and Assateague Island.  Only played 2x but I think the layout is good as is and am certainly content if the owners "leave well enough alone."  But the course never seems to get rated as highly as I think it ought relative to other Maryland public courses I've played.  If the owners cared about that, maybe some work would change the rankings, but maybe they'd screw it up too. 

[Tom_Doak]

Which existing course on a terrific site would you most like to see given a really significant upgrade? An upgrade that could transform it into being something really, really special.
I reckon I’d select the Cashen course at Ballybunion.
Atb

There are people dying to monetize this question, in the post-pandemic environment.


However, I don't think the Cashen would be the first course I'd recommend.  Years ago, I spent several days on trying to figure out a better routing, and came up pretty empty.  Sure, you could get on a bulldozer and smush down the green complexes into something receptive enough to make it playable in a wind, and that would be a major improvement.  But the land is very steep, and that means it will still have its weaknesses in the end.


[Ultimately, I didn't take the job because I remember Mr. Jones telling me personally that it was one of his favorite projects ever, and I didn't have the heart to blow it up under those circumstances . . . even though I can't agree with him.]

[JC Jones]

Can you imagine how great Cypress would be if they went to the ocean first via 18 corridor?

Maybe almost as good as Spyglass Hill?  Instead they opt'd for the greatest 17 hole course in the world...

Something like that.

[Thomas Dai]

Which existing course on a terrific site would you most like to see given a really significant upgrade? An upgrade that could transform it into being something really, really special.
I reckon I’d select the Cashen course at Ballybunion.
Atb

There are people dying to monetize this question, in the post-pandemic environment.
However, I don't think the Cashen would be the first course I'd recommend.  Years ago, I spent several days on trying to figure out a better routing, and came up pretty empty.  Sure, you could get on a bulldozer and smush down the green complexes into something receptive enough to make it playable in a wind, and that would be a major improvement.  But the land is very steep, and that means it will still have its weaknesses in the end.
[Ultimately, I didn't take the job because I remember Mr. Jones telling me personally that it was one of his favorite projects ever, and I didn't have the heart to blow it up under those circumstances . . . even though I can't agree with him.]

Thanks Tom. You’ve seen a zillion more courses than me so your relative priority of revising specifically the Cashen and your reference to Mr Jones position is understood.
I picked the Cashen partly as an example to stimulate debate and partly because it’s somewhere I’ve played and nearly like rather a lot but not quite.
I’m not going to suggest specific changes but am kind of wondering if with some routing etc tweaks, an appropriate amount of machine work to deal with some of the terrains severity and having more par-3’s or shorter par-4’s on the card wouldn’t make a pretty sensational men’s par 64-68 course. Shorter yardage wise on the card yet full cunning and strategy and interest but still with a whole bunch of challenge.
Atb

[Peter Flory]

Half Moon Bay is the ultimate. 
Lawsonia Woodlands course
Lido (the current version)