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Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2020, 02:24:26 AM »
I don't know who made the decision to interview DT, but whoever did should of known that he was not going to keep it about golf. What would have been interesting is to have them interview Obama as well, which would show a difference.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2020, 02:55:41 AM »
I certainly didn't tune in to this match to hear DJT earn free campaign air time to spew political nonsense.  >:(
No, that's the point where I turned off.  I won't be buying another Taylor Made club.
Not much of a sacrifice from someone with a bag of Titleist sticks.
Not very observant, Mike.  Titleist irons, yes, but TM driver, 3W and utilities.  I have never had anyone else's woods.  Will have to find an alternative.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2020, 02:57:50 AM »
I don't know who made the decision to interview DT, but whoever did should of known that he was not going to keep it about golf. What would have been interesting is to have them interview Obama as well, which would show a difference.
Quite.  This was TM's event, they will have had a degree of editorial control.  Trump should not have been given this soapbox.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2020, 03:47:59 AM »
I was surprised how difficult scoring was given how short the course is.

I am really struck by how penal the course looked.

Other than fairly flat lies, the course looks very difficult.

The broadcast was shockingly poor. One 4ball doesn't work well on TV with commercials. Having become used to no commercials, watching live US sports does my head in.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2020, 06:38:23 AM »
I miss Mucci.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2020, 07:08:43 AM »
It's entirely too damn easy to nit-pick and criticize almost any part of this event.

Yes, the broadcast was partly deficient and lacked the polish we might have been expecting. One might say the partly the same for the golf.

 A) NBC mentioned several times they were going to have limited production facilities (no towers, no cranes, little in the way of insightful architectural content, limited announcer pool, yada...yada).

 B) Yes, there was no need whatsoever to introduce any politics into this, but those with the editorial and financial control usually get what they want.

 C) The quality of the golf was somewhat distorted by the abject length contests and the lack of the usual tour-pro grinding intensity...as they are apt to do for their own dollars.

Now:

 A) Aren't we just plain glad to have some/partial/any fresh golf on weekend TV? Shouldn't we just be plain satisfied and happy to get an extensive glimpse of a gem like Seminole? For those who've never had the good fortune to tee it up there, it was thoroughly pleasing to have them finally view the place. This was clearly evidenced by my phone blowing up with texts from friends asking me specific questions about the place.

  This event was put together in record time and played for the absolute right reasons. Jimmy Dunne is a really smart, philanthropic good guy and David Abeles, the TM CEO, both recognized the value of using their assets to raise some big bucks for charity. Pete Bevaqua, the head of NBC Sports and a Seminole member recognized the same. Collectively, they all directed their Florida-based assets to put on a show for a good cause. It should be noted that they did so with considerable Covid-19 restrictions in force.

 B) NO question, NO doubt, politics should've been left totally out of this. Who knows whether it was the White House reaching out or they were contacted by the TM-NBC team? Both entities are close to one another, have extensive history with each other.... so it was almost predictable to those who understand these ties. No matter, it was a decidely corrosive stain on an otherwise altruistic gift.

 C) While certain activities, by previous standards, were borderline banal, i.e. poor interviews, silly contests with sillier rules, lackadaisical playing, etc.. it was refreshing and connective to see players carrying their own bags, playing quickly, wearing shorts, and miked-up for trash talking! These benefits clearly outweighed anything else IMO.

 Let's instead revel in what evolved from this. The spirit of fun golf was evident, broadcast to a starved audience, and played at a marvelous, previously secretive location. We got to see four of the world's very best playing relaxed, yet still competitive, golf. No one who watched didn't at least say to themselves; "hey, they remind me of my local foursome, or: "Hey I've picked up in a skins match, talked trash, or missed a 6' putt for the dough!"

 Those who've never stepped foot inside Seminole's gates now had the next best thing. They've seen why others have raved about this Ross gem. Sure, it would've been far wilder without the 3-4" of rain that fell in the previous 36 hours, but Mother Nature, as we all know, is eminently unpredictable.

 GCA.com ought to lead the way in avoiding the silly whining and instead help illustrate the positives. Let's celebrate something unique and different and use our collective golf IQ to lead others to desire more, not less of this kind of thing....just saying!


PS..Seminole does have female members. They are, for the most part, very good golfers.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 10:39:39 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Bill Shamleffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2020, 07:45:13 AM »
Nobody is raining on my parade.


Beyond all the nitpicking & whining in different places on social media, I very much enjoyed my virtual walk around Seminole yesterday.  (After I re-gripped my own clubs yesterday.  What a great feeling to do the manual process myself.  It was like back to working in the caddie shop 35 years ago.)


Also, having few great players with maybe barely their C games, probably showed what Seminole has to offer architecturally as opposed to if all 4 played in their top form.

This should be a great Walker Cup course.  (There might be more holes won with pars than with birdies.)


One final thought, I have seen a few comments extolling that this match may have shown the importance of that slight benefit these players get from their caddies’ assistance.
Possibly this is why there should be NO caddies in TOUR golf.


Give them a simple yardage book like they used to get in the 1980s.
Let the player alone add any notes from their own walking around the course pre-tournament, and during the tournament, and have them chart themselves around these courses.


THAT should be part of the athletic contest.  Who can think and analyze the best - on their own - during the heat of the competition.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 07:58:42 AM by Bill Shamleffer »
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2020, 09:11:20 AM »
Steve - kudos to you!!! That is EXACTLY how I felt. 👍👍


Loved seeing the course for the first time and I’m excited about the Walker Cup to be played there.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2020, 10:02:47 AM »
Steve - kudos to you!!! That is EXACTLY how I felt. 👍👍


Loved seeing the course for the first time and I’m excited about the Walker Cup to be played there.


I was disappointed in what the course looked like but I think it was due to the limited camera's. It looked great from the air but then at times it looked like a driving range from the camera's on the ground.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2020, 10:03:28 AM »

I would love to play Seminole, but the telecast confirmed the soundness of declining past opportunities due to the $500 unaccompanied guest fee + caddie.  Highly built-up greens, many if not most totally surrounded by sand, appear to nullify the ground game.  As they stated numerous times, it is a second shot course, with mostly short clubs.  And for most of us, that's when the fun really starts. 


The greens, like most bermuda hybrids, seemed to be very difficult for putting and chipping.  I think that the value of the professional caddie was clearly demonstrated in this match.  My gut feel is that short of really heavy wind, unusually dry conditions, and tricky course set-up, the WC players will have their way with the course.


It was great of the club, the players and all the sponsors to make this show possible.  It was the first golf I've watched since this pandemic hit us.  It was a nice diversion from all the ugliness we are subjected to each and every day.  Too bad we can't even keep it from this site.







JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2020, 10:21:17 AM »
Steve Lapper--thanks for taking the time to type that.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2020, 10:23:01 AM »
Access rush. Don't get crushed.

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2020, 10:55:46 AM »
"The money raised should have come from the govt. in March if we had a real leader."

Raised? I think you mean "confiscated".

You got a rare glimpse of a fine golf course. How about just enjoying the moment.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2020, 11:06:35 AM »
It reminds me a bit of the East Coast version of CPC

Upon reflection, it seems much more like the East Coast version of SFGC. A site that's 1/2 awesome and 1/2 plain. Exceptional holes where the terrain is interesting, but a small number of less inspiring holes where the terrain is flat. CPC has 18 holes of interesting terrain. Yes, Cypress Point depends on wind for much of its challenge as Seminole does. Maybe East Coast Cypress would be Fisher's Island?

Matt,

That could very well be a better comparison.  The CPC thought first popped in my head when seeing those sandy waste areas on 2 and 3, and thinking they looked a bit familiar to the 8/9 combo at CPC.  I would also concur on the flat parts appearing to be less than compelling, but it more than made up for it in the 2-6 stretch and several holes on the back 9.

P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.


« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:08:36 AM by Kalen Braley »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #89 on: May 18, 2020, 11:11:16 AM »


P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.


I don't doubt that it happened in his lifetime. Wind and firm ground can perform miracles.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2020, 11:14:41 AM »

P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.

I don't doubt that it happened in his lifetime. Wind and firm ground can perform miracles.

If it were a straight away hole, I could see that John.

But they all took a line that appeared to necessitate a 300 + yard carry, because you aren't getting much help from the soft waste area sand if you land in it..

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2020, 11:16:48 AM »
It's entirely too damn easy to nit-pick and criticize almost any part of this event.

Yes, the broadcast was partly deficient and lacked the polish we might have been expecting. One might say the partly the same for the golf.

 A) NBC mentioned several times they were going to have limited production facilities (no towers, no cranes, little in the way of insightful architectural content, limited announcer pool, yada...yada).

 B) Yes, there was no need whatsoever to introduce any politics into this, but those with the editorial and financial control usually get what they want.

 C) The quality of the golf was somewhat distorted by the abject length contests and the lack of the usual tour-pro grinding intensity...as they are apt to do for their own dollars.

Now:

 A) Aren't we just plain glad to have some/partial/any fresh golf on weekend TV? Shouldn't we just be plain satisfied and happy to get an extensive glimpse of a gem like Seminole? For those who've never had the good fortune to tee it up there, it was thoroughly pleasing to have them finally view the place. This was clearly evidenced by my phone blowing up with texts from friends asking me specific questions about the place.

  This event was put together in record time and played for the absolute right reasons. Jimmy Dunne is a really smart, philanthropic good guy and David Abeles, the TM CEO, both recognized the value of using their assets to raise some big bucks for charity. Pete Bevaqua, the head of NBC Sports and a Seminole member recognized the same. Collectively, they all directed their Florida-based assets to put on a show for a good cause. It should be noted that they did so with considerable Covid-19 restrictions in force.

 B) NO question, NO doubt, politics should've been left totally out of this. Who knows whether it was the White House reaching out or they were contacted by the TM-NBC team? Both entities are close to one another, have extensive history with each other.... so it was almost predictable to those who understand these ties. No matter, it was a decidely corrosive stain on an otherwise altruistic gift.

 C) While certain activities, by previous standards, were borderline banal, i.e. poor interviews, silly contests with sillier rules, lackadaisical playing, etc.. it was refreshing and connective to see players carrying their own bags, playing quickly, wearing shorts, and miked-up for trash talking! These benefits clearly outweighed anything else IMO.

 Let's instead revel in what evolved from this. The spirit of fun golf was evident, broadcast to a starved audience, and played at a marvelous, previously secretive location. We got to see four of the world's very best playing relaxed, yet still competitive, golf. No one who watched didn't at least say to themselves; "hey, they remind me of my local foursome, or: "Hey I've picked up in a skins match, talked trash, or missed a 6' putt for the dough!"

 Those who've never stepped foot inside Seminole's gates now had the next best thing. They've seen why others have raved about this Ross gem. Sure, it would've been far wilder without the 3-4" of rain that fell in the previous 36 hours, but Mother Nature, as we all know, is eminently unpredictable.

 GCA.com ought to lead the way in avoiding the silly whining and instead help illustrate the positives. Let's celebrate something unique and different and use our collective golf IQ to lead others to desire more, not less of this kind of thing....just saying!


PS..Seminole does have female members. They are, for the most part, very good golfers.

Its okay to disagree  8) 

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 02:04:22 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2020, 11:26:24 AM »
Kalen,


Trees grow.

Ted Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2020, 11:34:41 AM »
Some observations from yesterday:


1.  In an earlier thread, someone said that it looked like you could land an airplane on one of the fairways.  During my one visit to Seminole nearly 20 years ago, my host shared a story with our group that Seminole founder E. F. Hutton actually did land his airplane on one of the fairways (it's been too long for me to remember which one), and taxied his plane up to the clubhouse, parked, and went in for lunch.  I have no way to know if that was a true story, but I have never forgotten our host telling it.


2.  I loved watching those guys carry their own bags, and playing in shorts (just like the rest of us).  That was awesome.


3.  The round took longer than it should, mainly because they held them up at each tee to announce the stakes for that hole and they obviously held them at times for commercial breaks.  But watching the players determine their own yardage with the yardage guns, playing ready golf, and pulling the trigger fast was such a departure from PGA tour golf.  With DJ out of the hole at 9 due to driving it in the pond, the other 3 played all 3 approach shots to the green within 90 seconds.  That simply never happens on tour.  Wish it did.


4.  I kept wondering if the "ready golf" pace was aided by having no caddies and no green contour books.  Whatever it was, it was a breath of fresh air to not have to wait several minutes for each player to play a shot or strike a putt.


5.  Does anyone know where the 18th green was before it was rebuilt by Dick Wilson?  I'm assuming it was further away from the beach?  Does anyone have old photos of that green they could post?


TS

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2020, 11:45:40 AM »
Nice to see a golf course play that fast after significant rains in last 72 hours. Loved the architecture. Loved that color of bermuda,  as that light green is when you know it'll be fast. Bermuda that is glossy and glowing is generally not going to be bouncy, although certainly soils matter too. Sandy soils and off color bermuda means firm and fast at well tended golf courses. I can only imagine how fast they could get that golf course.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2020, 12:02:04 PM »
Access rush. Don't get crushed.


Better get a slot in the Loggerhead Turtle outing.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2020, 01:33:10 PM »

P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.

I don't doubt that it happened in his lifetime. Wind and firm ground can perform miracles.

If it were a straight away hole, I could see that John.

But they all took a line that appeared to necessitate a 300 + yard carry, because you aren't getting much help from the soft waste area sand if you land in it..


They weren't playing it from the original tees.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2020, 02:18:01 PM »
For those who have played Seminole, what is it about the course that makes it so great? I thought some of the waste-area aspects on the fringes of the course had a cool Pinehurst look to them. But otherwise, it just appeared to be a typical flat Florida course with palm trees and sea breeze and I suppose somewhat unique (for Florida) elevated greens? I'm sure it's an amazing place to spend a day, but what is it about the architecture that makes it so special?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2020, 02:26:23 PM »

P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.

I don't doubt that it happened in his lifetime. Wind and firm ground can perform miracles.

If it were a straight away hole, I could see that John.

But they all took a line that appeared to necessitate a 300 + yard carry, because you aren't getting much help from the soft waste area sand if you land in it..

They weren't playing it from the original tees.

JC,

That's kind of my point.  They played 16 from presumably a new set of C&C tees, even further back, and still hit into the greenside bunkers.

IIRC correctly it played just over 400 yards yesterday, not sure what the member tees are...

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Seminole
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2020, 03:00:47 PM »
For those who have played Seminole, what is it about the course that makes it so great? I thought some of the waste-area aspects on the fringes of the course had a cool Pinehurst look to them. But otherwise, it just appeared to be a typical flat Florida course with palm trees and sea breeze and I suppose somewhat unique (for Florida) elevated greens? I'm sure it's an amazing place to spend a day, but what is it about the architecture that makes it so special?




For starters, it's hardly flat, save for a few holes. The elevation isn't just pushed up greens. Gentle rises, falls and cants move the ball and enable a ground game right up to many greens.


The course has plenty of width off the tee, yet each green and accompanying pin placement creates a distinct line of charm that any amateur golfer must find to produce any chance for birdie, and often even a par. The greens are often crowned (domed a bit) and very, very difficult to both hold or putt on, especially when the wind is up. Quite a few are canted both front-to-back and back-to-front. The bunkering is both strategic and sublime.


The routing is near perfect, taking advantage of the natural terrain and crossing the entire compass providing challenge under any wind. It is subtle, yet supremely charming course that, like the very best, mixes fun and test near perfectly.



The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith