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John Emerson

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Are you getting ripped off?
« on: May 03, 2020, 01:10:59 PM »
I’m curious as to price disparity in booking your own Scottish golf trip, vs. paying a travel company to do it for you.  Anyone interested in disclosing what they spent, time in country, courses played etc?  I’ve talked to 2 others who paid a travel company.  I was flabbergasted at the amount of money they were charged.  It’s more than double what we spent for booking ourselves, and our trip and experience was significantly better than the folks I talked to.  Is this the norm for these companies to charge insane amounts? 
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

William_G

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2020, 09:08:27 PM »
Ireland as well  :o :o :o :o :o :o
It's all about the golf!

Ken Moum

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2020, 09:28:42 PM »
I’m curious as to price disparity in booking your own Scottish golf trip, vs. paying a travel company to do it for you.  Anyone interested in disclosing what they spent, time in country, courses played etc?  I’ve talked to 2 others who paid a travel company.  I was flabbergasted at the amount of money they were charged.  It’s more than double what we spent for booking ourselves, and our trip and experience was significantly better than the folks I talked to.  Is this the norm for these companies to charge insane amounts?


FWIW, several years ago I saw someone who broke down the costs of a trip that included a round on TOC.  Since everything except the TOC round could be booked by anyone, it turned out that the one round cost upwards of $1500.00



I used to talk to people who wanted to take advantage of the insanely good pheasant hunting in South Dakota.  I worked for the Game, Fish and Parks Dept., so I was talking to them about self-guided options. 


But I knew some of the folks who were there to help people who had little time to plan such a hunt, but were more than willing and able to pay someone to do it for them.


If you compared difference in cost you'd think the Scottish Tour companies were almost giving their services away.


I've personally planned four trips to Scotland, and doing it well either takes a good chunk of time or help from people like the ones here on GCA.  If you're really busy, and well-off, maybe the money doesn't seem so bad.


For someone who wants to play the Open rota, the fact that tour operators can guarantee access may well be priceless.


Do I think any of them enjoyed their trips more than the ones I planned, Hell No!
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Peter Flory

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2020, 09:46:57 PM »
I've always assumed that it is a rip off.  But keep in mind that many/ most wouldn't have a great idea of how to go about it themselves and don't want to take on the responsibility for their whole group. 


While it is a dying industry, there still are normal travel agents out there serving a part of the population. 



jeffwarne

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 10:05:00 PM »
I know how long it takes to set up a trip, and I've done more than 50-60 myself, and planned at least 20 for other people.
It's a ton of work, and travel companies have many connections and are held to a higher standard than I would be for a friend.
I wouldn't call it a rip off for someone time challenged, in fact I'd say money well spent.


I just happen to enjoy the process.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike_Young

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2020, 10:49:36 PM »
You my be surprised to just take a golf bag and a backpack and pick up a rail pass in London and get off in Berwick...make no plans and ask to play when you want to play and the days you want to just hang then hang...now that is much tougher with groups but for one or two people it is a great trip...work your way up and then back to London.....you can't beat the price that way...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

mike_beene

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2020, 11:43:36 PM »
Planning any trip is such a stressful night mare. If I book my own trips I would never go. I don't do yard work or cook and used to even hire a guy to cut my hair. Service is a big industry.

Jeff Schley

  • Total Karma: -3
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2020, 12:43:21 AM »
I wouldn't call it a rip off, I'd call it reasonable profit. The three situations I think a the tour operator adds value are:
1. You want guaranteed Old Course tee times and missed out on advanced tee time requests yourself and don't want to do the ballot. Also if you want Muirfield, which is right behind TOC in difficulty to access.
2. You are a group of more than 4, now you are talking a larger van to rent and two tee times complicates things.3. You DON"T want to drive on the "other" side of the road.  I totally understand this as I avoided it my first 5 trips to the UK/Ireland and paid through the nose as I just wasn't confident to do it. In this case packaging everything together when booking ground transport is an option.

If you plan on going back to the UK/Ireland multiple times, I'd recommend at least trying to plan your own in the beginning for you will get a skill to use later over and over again. In any event great trips and I think all of us just hope in 10/20 years that golf in that region survives in its present form considering the balance sheet of some with corona virus.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Michael Goldstein

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2020, 01:26:39 AM »

[size=78%]Many of my friends that work in the business generally say that visitors are more worried about wasting time than money.  So if an operator can help them to plan and book the trip but also ensure they don't waste time whilst on holiday then there's definitely value there.[/size]



@Pure_Golf

Sean_A

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2020, 04:47:24 AM »
Cost is driven by level of service. If a client wants top golf, 4-5* lodging and food, a driver, a quality vehicle plus perhaps special rounds involving well known figures then trip will cost a bomb and the fee will normally reflect that level of service. But there are plenty of golfers looking for cheaper options and the fee will reflect that. It's a matter of preference.

There is a decent percentage of travelling golfers who really want to lean on the knowledge of the operator to guide them to a good experience for a reasonable fee, but want to be more involved in process. In some ways, this method is more time consuming for the operator, but the customer will likely have a better experience because it started before bags were even packed.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Duncan Cheslett

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2020, 04:55:29 AM »
I always dislike the use of the expression "rip-off" when all prices are advertised honestly and comparisons can easily be made with alternative solutions.

There is a price to be paid for convenience and for someone else to do the legwork. If you're happy with that price pay it. If you're not happy with that price don't pay it and go with a cheaper alternative.

Just because something is beyond your budget doesn't make it a "rip-off".

Caveat Emptor
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 04:57:41 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2020, 06:18:08 AM »
The only person getting ripped off is your employer as you dream, plan and schedule your trip while at work.

Mark Pearce

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2020, 07:38:33 AM »
You my be surprised to just take a golf bag and a backpack and pick up a rail pass in London and get off in Berwick...make no plans and ask to play when you want to play and the days you want to just hang then hang...now that is much tougher with groups but for one or two people it is a great trip...work your way up and then back to London.....you can't beat the price that way...
Hmmm....


If you got off the train in Berwick you'd be disappointed.  Goswick's a good few miles away and Magdalen Fields is a poor course.  You'd probably regret not staying on the train to Edinburgh, or changing for a train to North Berwick!
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

jeffwarne

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2020, 09:32:55 AM »
You my be surprised to just take a golf bag and a backpack and pick up a rail pass in London and get off in Berwick...make no plans and ask to play when you want to play and the days you want to just hang then hang...now that is much tougher with groups but for one or two people it is a great trip...work your way up and then back to London.....you can't beat the price that way...
Hmmm....


If you got off the train in Berwick you'd be disappointed.  Goswick's a good few miles away and Magdalen Fields is a poor course.  You'd probably regret not staying on the train to Edinburgh, or changing for a train to North Berwick!


Was actually the first thing that came to mind...There's a certain romance associated with train travel, but most areas are no longer set up for that to be practical. And I've found car rentals to be dirt cheap in the UK, especially with a 2 or 3 way split.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adrian_Stiff

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2020, 09:36:38 AM »
There are several travel firms in the UK that tailor packages for you, the main ones Your Golf, Golf Breaks deal the same way:


They source the golf courses, tee times, hotels and charge the customer +20% of what they pay.


They normally get a discount of 20% on what the customer would pay if they rang direct.


They almost certainly won't be able to deal with THE OLD COURSE on the same sort of basis, they would be buying these rounds at inflated prices.


If you can sell everything at FULL PRICE why offer discount would be the rationale at the very top clubs so they probably can't better rack rake with these clubs either.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Ian Andrew

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2020, 09:56:04 AM »
deleted
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 06:48:15 AM by Ian Andrew »
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2020, 10:09:35 AM »
I recently went on a trip organized by a buddy that included TOC and everywhere else anyone would want to play. Some courses at member rates. Eight guys probably ended up going with the one guy doing 100% of the work. At the conclusion of the trip the organizer was confronted for him and me unfairly charging too many drinks to the bar bill. They weren’t wrong.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2020, 10:22:13 AM »
I have organized trips for a foursome to England and Ireland and have had very little trouble getting the courses we want. Noe of us were big drinkers so driving wasn't a problem. The only time I went to Scotland booking the Old course was easy because it was 25 years ago. The green fee was about 50 Pounds.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike_Young

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2020, 12:13:48 PM »
You my be surprised to just take a golf bag and a backpack and pick up a rail pass in London and get off in Berwick...make no plans and ask to play when you want to play and the days you want to just hang then hang...now that is much tougher with groups but for one or two people it is a great trip...work your way up and then back to London.....you can't beat the price that way...
Hmmm....


If you got off the train in Berwick you'd be disappointed.  Goswick's a good few miles away and Magdalen Fields is a poor course.  You'd probably regret not staying on the train to Edinburgh, or changing for a train to North Berwick!
Yep...I meant to say North Berwick...sorry...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2020, 12:25:43 PM »
I love planning my own trips. How many hours would you guess it takes to plan an epic trip overseas including booking travel and lodging?


Three weeks thinking and dreaming not withstanding. I guess you would do that even if you hired a service.


I'm estimating 1.5 hours per day of trip. Sure can make a work day fly by.

Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2020, 12:32:28 PM »
I love planning my own trips. How many hours would you guess it takes to plan an epic trip overseas including booking travel and lodging?


Three weeks thinking and dreaming not withstanding. I guess you would do that even if you hired a service.


I'm estimating 1.5 hours per day of trip. Sure can make a work day fly by.


I am with you. I really enjoy planning our trips, and it is more economical than an operator because it just my wife and me. But you must be more efficient than I am--I am guessing 4-5 hours at least per day of the trip. And yes, I thankfully have a good boss.


Ira

Mark Mammel

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2020, 12:54:37 PM »
I've gone on many trips to Scotland beginning as a young guy in 1977, traveling with a like-minded friend. We did all the "planning" which at that time included just 3 things- going to St Andrews and playing the Old Course, at that time just L3.50 and basically walk on; my friend, a 4, was entered in the South of Ireland Open at Lahinch; and we had tickets to the Open at Turnberry. OK, those days a re gone but the two of us and a variable number of guys (4-8) have been back regularly since 1992. Even in those days, where properly obsequious  letter-writing was necessary, we always planned our own trips because we couldn't afford to do it any other way. Now, with the internet, it's much easier. We know our way around a number of areas. Sometimes we drive, sometimes we hire a driver. The 2 of us "originals" really enjoy setting the rota and doing the logistics. it takes some time for sure, but will always be less costly- and the 50% number is about right. Generally, I tell friends contemplating a trip that a week in Scotland will cost less than a weekend at Pebble Beach. It is important to add the caveat that if you are on a one-off jpurney and want to play only bucket-list courses the planning is harder. But even at the Old things are possible. Get up at 3am and get in line at the starter's shack and you will get on. If you're willing to brave some lesser-known gems, of which there are so many, it's not so hard. In any case, if you are the type that enjoys the planning and anticipation of a unique trip all your own, I would strongly suggest doing it your self, especially if one of your crew has been there before.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

JESII

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2020, 01:01:19 PM »
Did you know it costs about $1.75 to buy yhr items necessary for a good cheeseburger? Yet they charge $10 at the bar...

Mark Pearce

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2020, 01:02:05 PM »
I love planning my own trips. How many hours would you guess it takes to plan an epic trip overseas including booking travel and lodging?


Three weeks thinking and dreaming not withstanding. I guess you would do that even if you hired a service.


I'm estimating 1.5 hours per day of trip. Sure can make a work day fly by.
The planning is half the fun.  Research into the courses, checking travel possibilities and accommodation options, finding restaurants etc.  And, as Ian said, go to St Andrews, enter the ballot, rock up at 4am if you're desperate to play TOC and enjoy all the great second tier courses in the surrounding area.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 9
Re: Are you getting ripped off?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2020, 01:07:24 PM »
I love planning my own trips. How many hours would you guess it takes to plan an epic trip overseas including booking travel and lodging?


Three weeks thinking and dreaming not withstanding. I guess you would do that even if you hired a service.


I'm estimating 1.5 hours per day of trip. Sure can make a work day fly by.


I am with you. I really enjoy planning our trips, and it is more economical than an operator because it just my wife and me. But you must be more efficient than I am--I am guessing 4-5 hours at least per day of the trip. And yes, I thankfully have a good boss.


Ira


I didn’t want to go that high but am glad you did. What’s fun is guessing your buds  birthdates when booking plane tickets. Spending 40 hrs at work planing a two week vacation is hilarious but true. Guys who actually bill hours can’t afford not to use a service. Or bill actual hours so to speak.