David Williams - Golf Course Architect.

[Duncan Cheslett]

What do we know about him?



https://www.rhyljournal.co.uk/sport/18389949.colwyn-bay-golf-course-designer-celebrates-30th-anniversary-business/

[Adrian_Stiff]

Nice bloke, did loads of golf course in the boom. Always reasonable courses.

[Richard Fisher]

I am 99% sure that he helped with the major changes to the 17th at Harlech necessitated by the expansion of the practice ground for championship purposes: the new dog-legged 17th hole is perhaps half a shot harder than the straight one it replaced, which may help to explain why a lot of member preference has remained for the original (with its celebrated cross-bunker in front of the green).

[Ben Stephens]

Duncan,




I have met David at a EIGCA event and have communicated with him by email. Like me he is a qualified architect (building construction) but chose to focus more towards golf course design and has been working at Real Golf de Pedrena lately.


He also redesigned the 12th hole at Porthcawl by creating a new green extending the hole by 100 yards.




Cheers
Ben

[Ally Mcintosh]

I first met David in 2007 when he set EIGCA students a project to route a course at the Great Orme in north Wales.


Chatted to him a number of times since. He is a gem of a bloke: Warm, kind, funny. Hasn’t always had the credit given to him in GCA where it is deserved.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Yes, David is a terrific fella. He did all of Neil Coles work back in the day.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

David was Captain at Conwy when I assisted him writing the 125th anniversary of the club. He has done quite a lot of work to continental clubs and lot of minor but significant work on British clubs. He's a very nice chap.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

An update on Pedreña:
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/david-williams-redesign-progresses-at-real-golf-de-pedre241a
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/david-williams-continues-work-on-harry-colt-layout-at-real-golf-de-pedre241a


Would be interesting to see early photos of these holes.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Yes, David is a terrific fella. He did all of Neil Coles work back in the day.

Yes


http://www.woolstonmanorgolf.co.uk/TheCourse/


So he's responsible for this dogs dinner? The pictured green with the Oak hanging over it, is closely followed by an uphill hole with another Oak in a bunker that forces a lay up. Weird. Gary Player said it was one of the best "young courses" he's played. As Kirsty MacColl once sang, "Well he's a liar".


I've got to the point when someone tells me that X, Golf Course Architect, is a great bloke it means he gets jobs for his sparkling charm, not talent.  I can't recall anyone describing MacKenzie as a great bloke. Colt had "the common touch" and was well loved, but I can't recall anyone describing his character before they referred to his talent.

[Ally Mcintosh]

His friends probably did, Tony

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I think I preferred the before version; the green is more visible and the bunkers are not so dominating. 
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/david-williams-redesign-progresses-at-real-golf-de-pedre241a

[Adam Lawrence]

Yes, David is a terrific fella. He did all of Neil Coles work back in the day.

Yes


http://www.woolstonmanorgolf.co.uk/TheCourse/


So he's responsible for this dogs dinner? The pictured green with the Oak hanging over it, is closely followed by an uphill hole with another Oak in a bunker that forces a lay up. Weird. Gary Player said it was one of the best "young courses" he's played. As Kirsty MacColl once sang, "Well he's a liar".


I've got to the point when someone tells me that X, Golf Course Architect, is a great bloke it means he gets jobs for his sparkling charm, not talent.  I can't recall anyone describing MacKenzie as a great bloke. Colt had "the common touch" and was well loved, but I can't recall anyone describing his character before they referred to his talent.

That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, Tony. It seems as though you are arguing that being a nice guy is a positive hindrance to being a good GCA. I can’t accept this, partly because I don’t see a causal connection, and partly because if so you’d need to explain the rather large gorilla in the room that is Bill Coore

[Ben Stephens]

I think I preferred the before version; the green is more visible and the bunkers are not so dominating. 
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/david-williams-redesign-progresses-at-real-golf-de-pedre241a

Donal


Like with buildings it is all about hitting the right balance I can see where you are coming from the bunkers are slightly over the top making the green look smaller and un-Coltish maybe it would have been better with more grass on the banks


Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

Yes, David is a terrific fella. He did all of Neil Coles work back in the day.

Yes


http://www.woolstonmanorgolf.co.uk/TheCourse/


So he's responsible for this dogs dinner? The pictured green with the Oak hanging over it, is closely followed by an uphill hole with another Oak in a bunker that forces a lay up. Weird. Gary Player said it was one of the best "young courses" he's played. As Kirsty MacColl once sang, "Well he's a liar".


I've got to the point when someone tells me that X, Golf Course Architect, is a great bloke it means he gets jobs for his sparkling charm, not talent.  I can't recall anyone describing MacKenzie as a great bloke. Colt had "the common touch" and was well loved, but I can't recall anyone describing his character before they referred to his talent.

That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, Tony. It seems as though you are arguing that being a nice guy is a positive hindrance to being a good GCA. I can’t accept this, partly because I don’t see a causal connection, and partly because if so you’d need to explain the rather large gorilla in the room that is Bill Coore

It's really all about who you know whether you like them or not plus working with someone well known or a large well known company does help.


Sometimes being nice does warm up to clients more whether they are the best person or not for the job.


From my impression David is a character and quite talk able from what I have seen at EIGCA events.


Every designer is different it can be like Marmite whether you like their work or not.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I see it as a compliment to him that so many of you stand up for someone you obviously like a lot.  I also get it that its not a front he is genuine.


But I doubt someone posting a question about what we know of him on a Golf Course Architecture site, wants to know if he's great fun in the bar at get togethers. This is like the discussion on here of the "Royal Engineers" who are hoovering up all the prestigious work in the UK at the moment. The UK contingent are quickly on here to say how nice they areas people, but slow to come up with examples of inspiring work.


I've been luck enough to meet many of you and as a group YOU'RE ALL TOO BLOODY NICE!  Lucky for me as I have a great time at get togethers. But if there's some kind of understanding that only work you're prepared to criticise is that of the old dead guys, then its  no wonder there's so much mediocre stuff around.




I will digress a bit,  In my career I worked with many of London's top building Architecture Firms and the reality was to succeed in that game being nice rarely seemed to be how they operated. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Golf Course Architects I've met.


I wish I could find an on line link to Colt's obituary by his friend Babbington.  Eventually he tells us about the person and its instructive. However he concentrates on his achievements for which he is remembered. I suspect Coore's courses will be loved long after the warmth of his smile has faded. 

[Ben Stephens]

I see it as a compliment to him that so many of you stand up for someone you obviously like a lot.  I also get it that its not a front he is genuine.


But I doubt someone posting a question about what we know of him on a Golf Course Architecture site, wants to know if he's great fun in the bar at get togethers. This is like the discussion on here of the "Royal Engineers" who are hoovering up all the prestigious work in the UK at the moment. The UK contingent are quickly on here to say how nice they areas people, but slow to come up with examples of inspiring work.


I've been luck enough to meet many of you and as a group YOU'RE ALL TOO BLOODY NICE!  Lucky for me as I have a great time at get togethers. But if there's some kind of understanding that only work you're prepared to criticise is that of the old dead guys, then its  no wonder there's so much mediocre stuff around.




I will digress a bit,  In my career I worked with many of London's top building Architecture Firms and the reality was to succeed in that game being nice rarely seemed to be how they operated. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Golf Course Architects I've met.


I wish I could find an on line link to Colt's obituary by his friend Babbington.  Eventually he tells us about the person and its instructive. However he concentrates on his achievements for which he is remembered. I suspect Coore's courses will be loved long after the warmth of his smile has faded.

Tony,


My current feeling is that Architects (construction) are more critical of each other than Golf Course Architects as I am active in both industries. For me at present Golf Course Architects are too wrapped around in cotton wool rather than take on board criticism which I believe would enable them to push the boundaries further.


Cheers
Ben

[Adam Lawrence]

I see it as a compliment to him that so many of you stand up for someone you obviously like a lot.  I also get it that its not a front he is genuine.

But I doubt someone posting a question about what we know of him on a Golf Course Architecture site, wants to know if he's great fun in the bar at get togethers. This is like the discussion on here of the "Royal Engineers" who are hoovering up all the prestigious work in the UK at the moment. The UK contingent are quickly on here to say how nice they areas people, but slow to come up with examples of inspiring work.

I've been luck enough to meet many of you and as a group YOU'RE ALL TOO BLOODY NICE!  Lucky for me as I have a great time at get togethers. But if there's some kind of understanding that only work you're prepared to criticise is that of the old dead guys, then its  no wonder there's so much mediocre stuff around.

I will digress a bit,  In my career I worked with many of London's top building Architecture Firms and the reality was to succeed in that game being nice rarely seemed to be how they operated. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Golf Course Architects I've met.

I wish I could find an on line link to Colt's obituary by his friend Babbington.  Eventually he tells us about the person and its instructive. However he concentrates on his achievements for which he is remembered. I suspect Coore's courses will be loved long after the warmth of his smile has faded.

Tony,

My current feeling is that Architects (construction) are more critical of each other than Golf Course Architects as I am active in both industries. For me at present Golf Course Architects are too wrapped around in cotton wool rather than take on board criticism which I believe would enable them to push the boundaries further.

I'm sure that's true, and I think the main reason is the relative size of the two professions. If a buildings architect says 'Calatrava is a poltroon', so what? If a golf designer says 'Tom Doak has no taste in shoes' he is quite likely to run into Tom before too long. It is hard to face people about whom you have been extremely rude in public.

[Thomas Dai]

..... "Royal Engineers" who are hoovering up all the prestigious work in the UK at the moment.

"Royal Engineers"! Hilarious phrasing!
atb

[Ben Stephens]

I see it as a compliment to him that so many of you stand up for someone you obviously like a lot.  I also get it that its not a front he is genuine.

But I doubt someone posting a question about what we know of him on a Golf Course Architecture site, wants to know if he's great fun in the bar at get togethers. This is like the discussion on here of the "Royal Engineers" who are hoovering up all the prestigious work in the UK at the moment. The UK contingent are quickly on here to say how nice they areas people, but slow to come up with examples of inspiring work.

I've been luck enough to meet many of you and as a group YOU'RE ALL TOO BLOODY NICE!  Lucky for me as I have a great time at get togethers. But if there's some kind of understanding that only work you're prepared to criticise is that of the old dead guys, then its  no wonder there's so much mediocre stuff around.

I will digress a bit,  In my career I worked with many of London's top building Architecture Firms and the reality was to succeed in that game being nice rarely seemed to be how they operated. I have been pleasantly surprised by the Golf Course Architects I've met.

I wish I could find an on line link to Colt's obituary by his friend Babbington.  Eventually he tells us about the person and its instructive. However he concentrates on his achievements for which he is remembered. I suspect Coore's courses will be loved long after the warmth of his smile has faded.

Tony,

My current feeling is that Architects (construction) are more critical of each other than Golf Course Architects as I am active in both industries. For me at present Golf Course Architects are too wrapped around in cotton wool rather than take on board criticism which I believe would enable them to push the boundaries further.

I'm sure that's true, and I think the main reason is the relative size of the two professions. If a buildings architect says 'Calatrava is a poltroon', so what? If a golf designer says 'Tom Doak has no taste in shoes' he is quite likely to run into Tom before too long. It is hard to face people about whom you have been extremely rude in public.

Adam you do really have an eclectic mix of words. Calatrava is a genius he is both a qualified architect and structural engineer a rarity the closest to Leonardo Da Vinci of our day. Was Leonardo praised all the time - no he wasn't he was ridiculed by some and yet proved them wrong. Calatrava mainly bases his design on natural structures and forms. His style can be rather repetitive at times. Valencia its a modern delight however any more may take the impact of other older Calatrava buildings away.


There is a fine line of being critical and rude. This is an open forum the same as a seminar when people can ask questions or a report reviewing the game, movie, building or golf courses. I always question why did that Architect or Golf Course Architect come up with that proposal? Every designer has their strength and weakness - Calatrava's weakness is probably the budget! Some of you think Star Wars is brilliant and others say its awful - you can't alway please everyone.
 

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Is it just me that thinks all the Calatrava bridges look the same? 

[Ben Stephens]

Is it just me that thinks all the Calatrava bridges look the same? 

They do all look similar. One of my favourite designs of Calatrava is a garage door!! search it on Google