I am thinking about re-opening the golf course tomorrow

[Adrian_Stiff]

Can't see why not, if you can drive to somewhere for the purpose of exercise.


Walk round the course - Book your time in one of the 8 minute slots - Bring your Dog, Wife, Partner.


Take your golf clubs if you want too.


We are UK.

[John Kavanaugh]

Sure but 8 minute slots sounds greedy.

[John Kavanaugh]

One thing that I have not seen discussed. Will you allow faster groups to play through?


I'll never forget the time I watched a group behind me not putt on the 13th green. When we met up on the 14th tee they told us they had already gone through 7 other groups. I guess since we met their quota they felt perfectly comfortable hitting a provisional off the tee. As far as I know they never found the bodies....I mean balls.

[Jon Wiggett]

Considering all the deaths Adrian I think this joke is in very poor taste 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Considering all the deaths Adrian I think this joke is in very poor taste 

not a joke, a few are opening up tomorrow, the guidelines changed that you can now drive to the countryside to exercise, so our members can walk the course, take their dog, wife, clubs as far as I am concerned.


Mendip Spring are opening they have the police as members. The police have booked to play.

[Edward Glidewell]

I don't think it's wrong for golf courses to be open, but I think they should have 15-20 minute tee time gaps to spread out play and avoid any tee box backups that bring people into closer contact.

[Kyle Harris]

Featuring the late, great Dennis Farina:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_cYrDFU18

[Tom_Doak]

In the U.S.A. every state has different rules!


In Michigan it's totally illegal to play golf or for courses to be open.


Meanwhile, my associate Brian Schneider was at The Legends in Myrtle Beach yesterday and they had 250+ rounds per course.

[Dave Givnish]

No reason not to play, and if every rider has their own cart, pace of play is improved. We've been playing at Talking Stick throughout. Walkers are now more than half of play (probably 2/3 to 3/4) versus almost no one before. Walking rounds average about 3 1/2 hours compared to 4 1/2 hours before. Pool noodles in the cup bottoms and no rakes limit transmission possibility (I guess).


Serious questions - will more people continue to walk, and will courses spend less time and effort on bunker maintenance once this is all done? I'd say maybe on the first, and probably not on the second, even though that would restore the "hazard" aspect to a bunker.

[Duncan Cheslett]

The UK government published a list of types of businesses which had to close under the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the accompanying guidelines. Golf courses were not on the list.


Government guidelines also specifically stated that businesses not on the list should remain open if it was possible to function safely and follow social distancing.


However, the guidelines also stated that people should only travel outside their home under very specific circumstances: shopping for food or essential supplies, for medical reasons, to take exercise once a day, or for work purposes if that work could not be undertaken from home.


England Golf took the decision that the travel restrictions ruled out driving to play golf, and so ordered the closure of all golf courses. The other national unions did the same.


Yesterday new clarification of the guidelines was put out by the police. This stated that driving a short distance to take exercise was acceptable after all. Half an hour’s drive to take a four hour walk is okay, so long as it is with a member of one’s own household.


The logical progression from this clarification is that it is fine to drive half an hour for a game of golf with your wife or other member of your household.


I believe that England Golf is on the case and has a meeting lined up with a government official to get an official ruling.


It is early days but it looks like the first step towards the reopening of courses is nigh.

[David Jones]

The UK government published a list of types of businesses which had to close under the Coronavirus Act 2020 and the accompanying guidelines. Golf courses were not on the list.


Government guidelines also specifically stated that businesses not on the list should remain open if it was possible to function safely and follow social distancing.


However, the guidelines also stated that people should only travel outside their home under very specific circumstances: shopping for food or essential supplies, for medical reasons, to take exercise once a day, or for work purposes if that work could not be undertaken from home.


England Golf took the decision that the travel restrictions ruled out driving to play golf, and so ordered the closure of all golf courses. The other national unions did the same.


Yesterday new clarification of the guidelines was put out by the police. This stated that driving a short distance to take exercise was acceptable after all. Half an hour’s drive to take a four hour walk is okay, so long as it is with a member of one’s own household.


The logical progression from this clarification is that it is fine to drive half an hour for a game of golf with your wife or other member of your household.


I believe that England Golf is on the case and has a meeting lined up with a government official to get an official ruling.


It is early days but it looks like the first step towards the reopening of courses is nigh.

I saw the guidance re driving and understand the point around golf being a form of exercise. However, given the extension of the lockdown for another 3 weeks (and with hundreds of people of dying in the country every day) I’d be gobsmacked if the formal bodies overtly suggested that golf should re-open for at least another three weeks in the UK. The government are desperately trying to keep people inside their homes to save lives aren’t they?!


I know you can make a very logical argument why walking around on your own or with a household member for 3 hours and a set of golf clubs is OK but I genuinely don’t think we should be thinking about this yet.


There was a campaign on Twitter yesterday to lobby MPs to open the golf courses. I would hope those MPs have other things to worry about at the moment.


However, when it is time to gradually reopen things golf could very rightly have a place being close to the top of the list. We’re just not there yet.

[Ian Mackenzie]

In Chicago, you may go to a 1000 sq ft liquor store and a 500 sq ft cannabis dispensary Then go get ripped. But you may not go to a 125 acre golf course and play a game.


 

[Ulrich Mayring]

If you're opening your golf course (or any other business), you're responsible to enforce distancing rules and other safety measures. If you can do that and actually do it, you should be fine.

But if you make a mistake and future infections can be traced back to "oh.. all these people played golf on that course", then I think you could be in trouble.

 You're basically taking over responsibility for infections at your location, if it is found your measures weren't adequate. But how are you going to police golfers over the course of a round, unless you have a marshal accompanying every group?

[Jon Wiggett]

Duncan,


from the UK Government website the list of businesses that MUST close include

Outdoor recreation

Playgrounds, sports courts and pitches, and outdoor gyms or similar




I would assume that golf courses are included in sports courts and pitches.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Duncan,


from the UK Government website the list of businesses that MUST close include

[font=&amp][size=inherit]Outdoor recreation[/size][/font]

[font=&amp][/font]

[font=&amp][/font]

[font=&amp][size=inherit]
Playgrounds, sports courts and pitches, and outdoor gyms or similar




I would assume that golf courses are included in sports courts and pitches.[/size][/font]

You have assumed wrong. The official line is England Golf have closed golf not the government. It is possible England Golf could now be sued for a wipe out.

[Ben Stephens]

If you're opening your golf course (or any other business), you're responsible to enforce distancing rules and other safety measures. If you can do that and actually do it, you should be fine.

But if you make a mistake and future infections can be traced back to "oh.. all these people played golf on that course", then I think you could be in trouble.

 You're basically taking over responsibility for infections at your location, if it is found your measures weren't adequate. But how are you going to police golfers over the course of a round, unless you have a marshal accompanying every group?

Ullrich,


I think it is down to the individual and common sense not the golf club or business' responsibility - it is their responsibility to self isolate if they are showing symptoms and if showing no symptoms to self distance 2m - I think it should be 8m to reduce the chances of getting in the COVID spread volumetric area. Golf courses can be forward thinking and help to avoid contact like not having paths crossing over which help to distance people.




GCAers


Also Golf businesses follow the law what the Government stipulates. If England Golf were 'breaking the rules' the Government would have told them so and advised them to keep the golf courses open. The main advice is to stay home and help the Health service. OutdoorExercise is a cloudy area there are more cyclists on the road in my area than it is cars 


I for one will not be playing golf possibly until there is a vaccine (within the next 18 months or so) as I live with my father who is 70 plus yrs old and more at risk.


I heard that in France - over 65s are not allowed to play until 2021







Cheers
Ben

[Duncan Cheslett]

Also Golf businesses follow the law what the Government stipulates. If England Golf were 'breaking the rules' the Government would have told them so and advised them to keep the golf courses open.

Hardly. If England Golf overstepped slightly in their interpretation of the government guidelines that doesn't constitute any breach of the rules. The government would actually be very pleased that a sport's governing body had gone further in upholding the lock-down than requested, anticipated, or expected.

I for one will not be playing golf possibly until there is a vaccine (within the next 18 months or so) as I live with my father who is 70 plus yrs old and more at risk.

I understand your particular circumstances and respect your decision. However, if everyone followed suit there would undoubtedly be very few golf courses left in 18 months time. Few club members will be in a position to continue paying annual subscriptions in the full knowledge that they will not be playing golf.


The French rumour is probably even more worrying. The backbone of most golf clubs are over 65. Take them out of the picture and golf collapses. As for over 75s, most I know who still play 3 times a week would far rather the infinitesimal risk of golf-related infection and death than stop playing.


Clearly you intend to avoid contracting the virus until a vaccine is widely available in order to protect your father. This is admirable but I am sure that you will necessarily have to put yourself in far riskier situations over the next couple of years in the normal course of life than you would encounter playing golf.

[Kalen Braley]

In Chicago, you may go to a 1000 sq ft liquor store and a 500 sq ft cannabis dispensary Then go get ripped. But you may not go to a 125 acre golf course and play a game.

Ian,


Many would think booze and pot are far more essential during quarantine than a golf course... 

[Mark Chaplin]

If driving to the golf course was the issue why were courses closed? I live a ten minute walk to the course, many live far closer so why does driving come into it? I’d say a golf course is a sports pitch, the rules do not state the sports linked to an outside sports pitch.

[John Kavanaugh]

If driving to the golf course was the issue why were courses closed? I live a ten minute walk to the course, many live far closer so why does driving come into it? I’d say a golf course is a sports pitch, the rules do not state the sports linked to an outside sports pitch.

It's the travel that is 100% the problem. Here in the US people were crossing state lines from one hot spot to a place that was safe at the time. I got primarily offended when Golfweek participated in a group driving 90 miles each way to promote a national destination course. I personally love the idea of restricted travel.


Which leads to a question that every member on this board can understand. Will the locals in Mullen accept New Yorkers flying in to play Sand Hills this summer? I'm not seeing it.

[Ben Stephens]

Also Golf businesses follow the law what the Government stipulates. If England Golf were 'breaking the rules' the Government would have told them so and advised them to keep the golf courses open.

Hardly. If England Golf overstepped slightly in their interpretation of the government guidelines that doesn't constitute any breach of the rules. The government would actually be very pleased that a sport's governing body had gone further in upholding the lock-down than requested, anticipated, or expected.

I for one will not be playing golf possibly until there is a vaccine (within the next 18 months or so) as I live with my father who is 70 plus yrs old and more at risk.

I understand your particular circumstances and respect your decision. However, if everyone followed suit there would undoubtedly be very few golf courses left in 18 months time. Few club members will be in a position to continue paying annual subscriptions in the full knowledge that they will not be playing golf.


The French rumour is probably even more worrying. The backbone of most golf clubs are over 65. Take them out of the picture and golf collapses. As for over 75s, most I know who still play 3 times a week would far rather the infinitesimal risk of golf-related infection and death than stop playing.


Clearly you intend to avoid contracting the virus until a vaccine is widely available in order to protect your father. This is admirable but I am sure that you will necessarily have to put yourself in far riskier situations over the next couple of years in the normal course of life than you would encounter playing golf.




My parents are in their mid 80's and in poor health. My father also has vascular dementia. They live in sheltered housing nearby and my wife and I cater to their needs. We are careful to avoid direct contact and follow all the necessary precautions.


My mother's response to the pandemic was immediately to buy and pay for two funerals from a golfing undertaker friend of mine for her own peace of mind.  She was very anxious to get a good deal!

Personally England Golf have done the right thing - we need to flatten the curve at first and reduce the risk of the spread and then assess what to do next to ease the restrictions. The virus can stay on metal for around 4 days and we use metal clubs as well as metal flags etc the risk is high at present. We just have to pray that they find a vaccine sooner than later.


Post Covid world will be different to what we have been living on pre 2019. It will be different and people will be more wary of others if they have a cold or a cough. Also insurance policies will be higher on a number of things.


The number of golf clubs will go down in the first half of the 2020's decade. The strongest and most astute from financial standpoint will survive. However the number of younger people playing golf is probably at a all time low. I guess we will need to think outside the box how to make golf a more sustainable sport not just playground for the rich.


The French news is not a rumour. Plus they are not maintaining a number of golf course in France.


Golf is only a game for me my family health is more important and health over money in the current climate. We will recover money wise but you have 1 chance at life otherwise thats it. A close family friend's sister died of Covid this week even though they had an underlining illness it happened so quick and they can't go to the funeral due to the risk it is horrific for them to go through this.


For the last 50 odd years we humans have been very fortunate to live the life we have had.


We just need to keep positive and stay safe!
 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Also Golf businesses follow the law what the Government stipulates. If England Golf were 'breaking the rules' the Government would have told them so and advised them to keep the golf courses open.

Hardly. If England Golf overstepped slightly in their interpretation of the government guidelines that doesn't constitute any breach of the rules. The government would actually be very pleased that a sport's governing body had gone further in upholding the lock-down than requested, anticipated, or expected.

I for one will not be playing golf possibly until there is a vaccine (within the next 18 months or so) as I live with my father who is 70 plus yrs old and more at risk.

I understand your particular circumstances and respect your decision. However, if everyone followed suit there would undoubtedly be very few golf courses left in 18 months time. Few club members will be in a position to continue paying annual subscriptions in the full knowledge that they will not be playing golf.


The French rumour is probably even more worrying. The backbone of most golf clubs are over 65. Take them out of the picture and golf collapses. As for over 75s, most I know who still play 3 times a week would far rather the infinitesimal risk of golf-related infection and death than stop playing.


Clearly you intend to avoid contracting the virus until a vaccine is widely available in order to protect your father. This is admirable but I am sure that you will necessarily have to put yourself in far riskier situations over the next couple of years in the normal course of life than you would encounter playing golf.




My parents are in their mid 80's and in poor health. My father also has vascular dementia. They live in sheltered housing nearby and my wife and I cater to their needs. We are careful to avoid direct contact and follow all the necessary precautions.


My mother's response to the pandemic was immediately to buy and pay for two funerals from a golfing undertaker friend of mine for her own peace of mind.  She was very anxious to get a good deal!

Personally England Golf have done the right thing - we need to flatten the curve at first and reduce the risk of the spread and then assess what to do next to ease the restrictions. The virus can stay on metal for around 4 days and we use metal clubs as well as metal flags etc the risk is high at present. We just have to pray that they find a vaccine sooner than later.


Post Covid world will be different to what we have been living on pre 2019. It will be different and people will be more wary of others if they have a cold or a cough. Also insurance policies will be higher on a number of things.


The number of golf clubs will go down in the first half of the 2020's decade. The strongest and most astute from financial standpoint will survive. However the number of younger people playing golf is probably at a all time low. I guess we will need to think outside the box how to make golf a more sustainable sport not just playground for the rich.


The French news is not a rumour. Plus they are not maintaining a number of golf course in France.


Golf is only a game for me my family health is more important and health over money in the current climate. We will recover money wise but you have 1 chance at life otherwise thats it. A close family friend's sister died of Covid this week even though they had an underlining illness it happened so quick and they can't go to the funeral due to the risk it is horrific for them to go through this.


For the last 50 odd years we humans have been very fortunate to live the life we have had.


We just need to keep positive and stay safe!

Ben I hope you are and continue to be well.


We need facts, please no more rumours. (Sorry but I'm getting deluged by stories of what is happening in other countries),


A close friend of ours died this week (not of Covid 19). The widow is allowed 8 mourners to attend when he is due to be cremated in May. At present she's asked my Wife to attend. In the meantime if they relax that no.  and allow just one more, she's asked if I will also attend. 


Sad days indeed.


Adrian, I feel the Government is testing the water on easing restrictions and you are correct, local Golf is now allowed under the right conditions. They will watch this carefully and hopefully learn how people react.  There will never be "the right time" to re open and golf has always attracted criticism. But any moves within the appropriate guidance, to bring things back to 'normal' is a good move.  Of course I can choose not to play if I want.

I hope it went well.

[Ben Stephens]

Also Golf businesses follow the law what the Government stipulates. If England Golf were 'breaking the rules' the Government would have told them so and advised them to keep the golf courses open.

Hardly. If England Golf overstepped slightly in their interpretation of the government guidelines that doesn't constitute any breach of the rules. The government would actually be very pleased that a sport's governing body had gone further in upholding the lock-down than requested, anticipated, or expected.

I for one will not be playing golf possibly until there is a vaccine (within the next 18 months or so) as I live with my father who is 70 plus yrs old and more at risk.

I understand your particular circumstances and respect your decision. However, if everyone followed suit there would undoubtedly be very few golf courses left in 18 months time. Few club members will be in a position to continue paying annual subscriptions in the full knowledge that they will not be playing golf.


The French rumour is probably even more worrying. The backbone of most golf clubs are over 65. Take them out of the picture and golf collapses. As for over 75s, most I know who still play 3 times a week would far rather the infinitesimal risk of golf-related infection and death than stop playing.


Clearly you intend to avoid contracting the virus until a vaccine is widely available in order to protect your father. This is admirable but I am sure that you will necessarily have to put yourself in far riskier situations over the next couple of years in the normal course of life than you would encounter playing golf.




My parents are in their mid 80's and in poor health. My father also has vascular dementia. They live in sheltered housing nearby and my wife and I cater to their needs. We are careful to avoid direct contact and follow all the necessary precautions.


My mother's response to the pandemic was immediately to buy and pay for two funerals from a golfing undertaker friend of mine for her own peace of mind.  She was very anxious to get a good deal!

Personally England Golf have done the right thing - we need to flatten the curve at first and reduce the risk of the spread and then assess what to do next to ease the restrictions. The virus can stay on metal for around 4 days and we use metal clubs as well as metal flags etc the risk is high at present. We just have to pray that they find a vaccine sooner than later.


Post Covid world will be different to what we have been living on pre 2019. It will be different and people will be more wary of others if they have a cold or a cough. Also insurance policies will be higher on a number of things.


The number of golf clubs will go down in the first half of the 2020's decade. The strongest and most astute from financial standpoint will survive. However the number of younger people playing golf is probably at a all time low. I guess we will need to think outside the box how to make golf a more sustainable sport not just playground for the rich.


The French news is not a rumour. Plus they are not maintaining a number of golf course in France.


Golf is only a game for me my family health is more important and health over money in the current climate. We will recover money wise but you have 1 chance at life otherwise thats it. A close family friend's sister died of Covid this week even though they had an underlining illness it happened so quick and they can't go to the funeral due to the risk it is horrific for them to go through this.


For the last 50 odd years we humans have been very fortunate to live the life we have had.


We just need to keep positive and stay safe!

Ben I hope you are and continue to be well.


We need facts, please no more rumours. (Sorry but I'm getting deluged by stories of what is happening in other countries),


A close friend of ours died this week (not of Covid 19). The widow is allowed 8 mourners to attend when he is due to be cremated in May. At present she's asked my Wife to attend. In the meantime if they relax that no.  and allow just one more, she's asked if I will also attend. 


Sad days indeed.


Adrian, I feel the Government is testing the water on easing restrictions and you are correct, local Golf is now allowed under the right conditions. They will watch this carefully and hopefully learn how people react.  There will never be "the right time" to re open and golf has always attracted criticism. But any moves within the appropriate guidance, to bring things back to 'normal' is a good move.  Of course I can choose not to play if I want.

I hope it went well.

Hi Tony,




Thank you for the message I am very well thanks and hope you and family are.


I have PM you regarding information on France.




GCA


If the UK Government thinks it is safe to play golf thats ok the question I have for them what about the over 70's rule that they have been advised to stay at home for 12 weeks or so.


It is a personal choice whether people want to go out and play golf. I for one is less willing to risk it and be safe for the other member of the household.


Stay safe!

[Lou_Duran]

What is the "French rumour"?


Interesting article in the WSJ titled "New Data Suggest the Coronavirus Isn't as Deadly as We Thought".


In making a decision whether to play golf, one should consider not only the particulars of the area and how the course is managing play through the pandemic, but also who is actually playing.  At my home club, we have several doctors and healthcare professionals as members, and any number of well-educated people with families who can actually read, write, and chew gum at the same time.


One of the guys I've played with three times since the restrictions have been imposed is the president of a large, multi-office national medical practice.  He was a practicing physician for many years which included stints in very difficult environments.  In addition to being responsible for hundreds of employees, he has a family.  Would he be risking all this frivolously?


Contrast this to the advice coming from many governments with support of some medical professionals.  There is a widely-held belief in government work that one "Oh Shit" offsets 10 "Atta boys".  It is good to err on the side of caution, but are there limits on the factor?  What are the costs of taking draconian, across the border actions at least in part to cover one's backside?  Consider also the personal factors involved: nearly all of these folks have a regular paycheck coming in and even if they miss the mark badly, historically, their jobs are not at risk nor do they seem to incur reputational damage.  I am not saying that we should discount their predictions and advice, only that we consider that they too are human, make mistakes, and are subject to the same human failings that we all are.


I talk a lot to the professional staff, outside services and maintenance personnel at our club,  To a person, they are highly thankful for the opportunity and option to work- a number of them making more money presently than they had previously- and to the members who support the club by remaining active, purchasing take-out packages from the kitchen, and following the guidelines which protect us all.  I can say with no hesitation, that if the club was closed, there would be many members and staff who would have great difficulty getting through these terrible times. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Duncan,


from the UK Government website the list of businesses that MUST close include

Outdoor recreation

Playgrounds, sports courts and pitches, and outdoor gyms or similar





I would assume that golf courses are included in sports courts and pitches.

You have assumed wrong. The official line is England Golf have closed golf not the government. It is possible England Golf could now be sued for a wipe out.

Adrian,


I don't think I am wrong. If it were just England Golf then there would have been quite a lot of golf facilities which would have remained open. Its pretty clear from the list of businesses the must close that golf courses are one of them. I know up here in Scotland there has been no move by the Scottish Government to alter the rules and after a cursory look today I can't see any changes pertaining to England.


Duncan,


I know that many of us are desperate to get golf back up and running but even as someone who has a lot to lose due to this pandemic I think caution is still maybe needed at this time.