Do the professional golf tours provide value?

[John Kavanaugh]

What am I missing? If I am going to be totally honest I am not looking forward to the possibility of just getting back into golfing again and having my course closed for a tournament. Funny thing I had alway believed that the Masters triggered something inside me inflaming my golf desires. Or maybe it was just April. Professional golf is a negative return for me. Am I alone?


To keep this on topic please give any examples the good the tour does for your local architecture. For me, they sure did insist on making Victoria National 5 shots easier though tree removal and increased fairway widths alone. Thank you Tom Meeks.

[Kyle Harris]

What am I missing? If I am going to be totally honest I am not looking forward to the possibility of just getting back into golfing again and having my course closed for a tournament. Funny thing I had alway believed that the Masters triggered something inside me inflaming my golf desires. Or maybe it was just April. Professional golf is a negative return for me. Am I alone?


To keep this on topic please give any examples the good the tour does for your local architecture. For me, they sure did insist on making Victoria National 5 shots easier though tree removal and increased fairway widths alone. Thank you Tom Meeks.

Since you brought it up. How did you use those 5 shots?

[PCCraig]

They provide entertainment value, but not much else, to the everyday golfer.

[John Kavanaugh]

What am I missing? If I am going to be totally honest I am not looking forward to the possibility of just getting back into golfing again and having my course closed for a tournament. Funny thing I had alway believed that the Masters triggered something inside me inflaming my golf desires. Or maybe it was just April. Professional golf is a negative return for me. Am I alone?


To keep this on topic please give any examples the good the tour does for your local architecture. For me, they sure did insist on making Victoria National 5 shots easier though tree removal and increased fairway widths alone. Thank you Tom Meeks.

Since you brought it up. How did you use those 5 shots?

We quit calling 80 par and only tell people what we post instead of what we shot. That is the problem with handicaps. One lost ball on a hole is the same as three lost balls. A double is a double.

[Jeff Schley]

Architecture - can't think of much good, however it usually requires some changes that need to be paid for by somebody and typically via assessments for clubs chasing hosting events.

Benefits overall - you can start and end with the charitable giving.  Each tournament is set up as a non-profit and gives back hundreds of thousands to charities in the cities where they take place.

[Kyle Harris]

What am I missing? If I am going to be totally honest I am not looking forward to the possibility of just getting back into golfing again and having my course closed for a tournament. Funny thing I had alway believed that the Masters triggered something inside me inflaming my golf desires. Or maybe it was just April. Professional golf is a negative return for me. Am I alone?


To keep this on topic please give any examples the good the tour does for your local architecture. For me, they sure did insist on making Victoria National 5 shots easier though tree removal and increased fairway widths alone. Thank you Tom Meeks.

Since you brought it up. How did you use those 5 shots?

We quit calling 80 par and only tell people what we post instead of what we shot. That is the problem with handicaps. One lost ball on a hole is the same as three lost balls. A double is a double.

From that I can infer that the Tour adds value by giving us some stories to which we can aspire.

Roy McAvoy's Net 7 just doesn't sound right.

[John Kavanaugh]

Architecture - can't think of much good, however it usually requires some changes that need to be paid for by somebody and typically via assessments for clubs chasing hosting events.

Benefits overall - you can start and end with the charitable giving.  Each tournament is set up as a non-profit and gives back hundreds of thousands to charities in the cities where they take place.

Not everyone needs to play in a pro am to support their local charities. While I don't have the figures it is my opinion an inefficient method of fund raising. Honestly, it makes me sick.

[Jeff Schley]

Architecture - can't think of much good, however it usually requires some changes that need to be paid for by somebody and typically via assessments for clubs chasing hosting events.

Benefits overall - you can start and end with the charitable giving.  Each tournament is set up as a non-profit and gives back hundreds of thousands to charities in the cities where they take place.

Not everyone needs to play in a pro am to support their local charities. While I don't have the figures it is my opinion an inefficient method of fund raising. Honestly, it makes me sick.

Being a little over dramatic here, why jump to how they get the money to donate to charity?  You asked a question about value, and the overall benefit (which I would have thought universally agreed upon) is that each event donates hundreds of thousands to local charities. This would only multiply the great donations and efforts you and many others do in your typical lives wherever we live. Can't imagine how that would bring about any malady.

[John Kavanaugh]

Do you really believe that the AT&T pro am is the best use of all the CEO's time and resources. Now if next year they donate the same amount to money and let first responders play in their place I might feel better.

[Kalen Braley]

Do you really believe that the AT&T pro am is the best use of all the CEO's time and resources. Now if next year they donate the same amount to money and let first responders play in their place I might feel better.

John,

I used to think same about the AT&T, until i did a little digging and found out that while Monterey county has some of the richest communities in the country, it also has some of the poorest.  Outside of the coastal areas, the inland areas of the county are in rough shape.  The AT&T has resulted in tens of millions of dollars being allocated to help in addition to similar places in neighboring counties.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm sure Danny Gans is in heaven now doing impressions of Jesus himself.

[Peter Pallotta]

Most every profession exists primarily for the benefit of those who practice it.
The world doesn't need any more golf pros, or lawyers, or writers or golf architects or pastry chefs or theatre actors.
But the world is full of people of want to be golf pros or lawyers or writers or actors or architects or pastry chefs.
So let's be gracious enough to be happy for those who get to be what they want to be, and grateful for the fact that at least a few/the best practitioners in those various professions sometimes provide benefits for the rest of us.
Which is to say: professional golf tours exist for the benefit of/provide 'value' to professional golfers and tournament organizers and magazine writers and tour officials; and that is enough of a reason for their existence -- especially since several times a year they end up providing me with a goodly amount of pleasure too. 

 
 

[jeffwarne]

Do you really believe that the AT&T pro am is the best use of all the CEO's time and resources. Now if next year they donate the same amount to money and let first responders play in their place I might feel better.

That I would watch.
And I will grant that Tour events generate tons more for the local communities surrounding them-largely on the backs of many tireless volunteers. Many communities will feel the effects of these cancellations, especially in a year those donations will be sorely needed.


That said, I have always felt "charity outings" complete with useless tee gift bling, big gala dinners, etc.. were an exteremly inefficient way to support charities.
Lots of entities, facilities,vendors, sponsors staff feeding at the trough
Not a large % getting to the beneficiaries.


We had a caddie who passed away unexpectedly about 15 years ago. It was during the beginning of the season and no members were around, and no time to organize anything involving the membership, and it was in our early days when we had only 60 members. His family had very limited funds and even a funeral was in question.
We put the word out amongst locals, first responders(many of whom played regularly at The Bridge), coaches etc. many who had never played The Bridge, most of modest means. No Social media then-just phone calls to local pros, organizations and word of mouth.
$100 cash donation suggested-no other fees,carry your own bag or bring your own pullcart-no food-no formal event-no caddies(most were playing in the outing, along with our staff)-no food service just golf with your hand picked 4 someone we would pair.
Organized it on a Saturday, played it on the next Tuesday(the day we're closed).
We had so much demand we had to go tee times from 8:00 to 2:30 with very few gaps.
A very diverse group to say the least-and smiles everywhere.
At the end I handed $22350 cash to his widow, with zero expenses deducted. Our only variable cost was the club donated the bar receipts that day $5 can beer and $10 mixed drinks.
When I go I hope it's that simple, though I would prefer the beer be free...


I've been involved with many charitable outings that charge 15 times that and raise LESS(for the beneficiary) for a one day outing, due to all the feeding at the trough and ridiculous trappings of bling, staff, organizers and fancy dinners. And those are 100x the headache to administrate-and deprive the members of use of their course which has a cost as well.


In short simplicity and actual donations best-not "what am I getting for donating?"

[John Kavanaugh]

Most every profession exists primarily for the benefit of those who practice it.
The world doesn't need any more golf pros, or lawyers, or writers or golf architects or pastry chefs or theatre actors.
But the world is full of people of want to be golf pros or lawyers or writers or actors or architects or pastry chefs.
So let's be gracious enough to be happy for those who get to be what they want to be, and grateful for the fact that at least a few/the best practitioners in those various professions sometimes provide benefits for the rest of us.
Which is to say: professional golf tours exist for the benefit of/provide 'value' to professional golfers and tournament organizers and magazine writers and tour officials; and that is enough of a reason for their existence -- especially since several times a year they end up providing me with a goodly amount of pleasure too.

That is hilarious. I’ve spent 21 days now in quarantine and find little pleasure in celebrities. With the exception of Drew Carrey of course. The expression on his face as he gives away trips to exotic locals is priceless. Little do the winners know...an innocence we may never recapture.

[Jeff Schley]

Do you really believe that the AT&T pro am is the best use of all the CEO's time and resources. Now if next year they donate the same amount to money and let first responders play in their place I might feel better.

Really, trolling about charity? In your example, AT&T sponsors and is a marketing cost to the sponsors who also have the benefit of writing it off as a charitable donation for all PGA Tour events I believe are set up as 501 (c) 3 organizations. Thus the delta between the sponsorship cost and tax savings for the write off is a marketing expense and provides great exposure to sponsors.

Would you rather their events not be set up as non profits? Which I don't think any other professional sports league does.

 The pro am fees don't constitute the bulk of the donations anyway, they are perks for the title sponsor. If some company that puts up several millions dollars has 10 of their VP's playing with Speith, Johnson, etc. to get hundreds of thousands to charities in need, where is the downside? The PGA model isn't perfect, but they do make a positive impact wherever they go. They don't claim to cure cancer, just make a small difference and a much larger impact than any other pro sport I believe.

[Bernie Bell]

Peter, not really seeing nurses, home health aides, grocery stockers, delivery drivers doing it for their own benefit at the moment.  Not an exhaustive list obviously.  I'm sure that's not what you meant.  To Jeff's point on charity, perhaps on the other side we'll see more people involved in mutual aid and Burke's "little platoons," and those in need will be less necessarily reliant on celebrity galas, sports charity and the vagaries of governmental protections.  My relief plan for the Hollywood celebrities involves the return of drive-in movie theaters.   

[jeffwarne]

My relief plan for the Hollywood celebrities involves the return of drive-in movie theaters.

Interesting point

[Bernie Bell]

My relief plan for the Hollywood celebrities involves the return of drive-in movie theaters.

Interesting point

All part of the Dark Ages Recovery Plan.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Most every profession exists primarily for the benefit of those who practice it.
The world doesn't need any more golf pros, or lawyers, or writers or golf architects or pastry chefs or theatre actors.
But the world is full of people of want to be golf pros or lawyers or writers or actors or architects or pastry chefs.
So let's be gracious enough to be happy for those who get to be what they want to be, and grateful for the fact that at least a few/the best practitioners in those various professions sometimes provide benefits for the rest of us.
Which is to say: professional golf tours exist for the benefit of/provide 'value' to professional golfers and tournament organizers and magazine writers and tour officials; and that is enough of a reason for their existence -- especially since several times a year they end up providing me with a goodly amount of pleasure too.

I agree with much of what you expound but have to differ with your sense that "Most every profession exists primarily for the benefit of those who practice it." I don't think that was true of me. I don't think it is true of my lawyer son whose calling is to help people stay in their homes in his job with legal aid, or for my daughter who is the director of the Sexual assault prevention and awareness department at the University of Michigan.

[V. Kmetz]

That said, I have always felt "charity outings" complete with useless tee gift bling, big gala dinners, etc.. were an exteremly inefficient way to support charities.
Lots of entities, facilities,vendors, sponsors staff feeding at the trough
Not a large % getting to the beneficiaries.
....
I've been involved with many charitable outings that charge 15 times that and raise LESS(for the beneficiary) for a one day outing, due to all the feeding at the trough and ridiculous trappings of bling, staff, organizers and fancy dinners. And those are 100x the headache to administrate-and deprive the members of use of their course which has a cost as well.

In short simplicity and actual donations best-not "what am I getting for donating?"

God is that an authentic spot-on coverage; I agree... the retail larding of disposable crap by corporate event planners and event planning divisions of charities is discouraging.  I want to cut people who feed at the trough some slack, like charity staff, because it is a singular fun day for them too.  Yes, they are likely to cause the day to be a greater headache, but some of the industry/profession is accepting headaches -- even annual, repeated headaches -- and making people feel good about it.


Also, head pros are able to move a lot of fading inventory through those prizes ... and unless the figures start to get up there, the head pro doesn't even come...most hPros I know don't turn up unless we're talking 2.5k+...otherwise honorable #2 Asst and the PGM student from Ferris can handle it. In either case, the head pro will not be the one exchanging a medium cutter and buck for the last Vokey wedge in the barrel at 8:40 pm. 


Yet, the larger question of JK's ...value. First of all, what is one putting in?  Me? I support things that don't coincide with Tour charities... I haven't bought but one or two tickets to events in the last 10 years and I haven't bought anything sponsored on TV in longer than that.  So I haven't put much in; whatever entertainment I receive and however much some charity that benefits the world around me is supported, I'm getting fanatastic value.


I'm not an expert, but I think the Tour is better than all the other sports at executing a significant, diverse, locally-orientated charitable endeavor that's deeply ingrained in the public's recognition of the sport.  One thinks of golf and charity, before they do professional baseball, football, hockey etc...and charity.  I don't know what initiatives and for how much the NFL is in charity that's not a targetted strategy, recognized as a necessary expense by which to keep getting 8 billion a year in just TV revenue...the same with MLB...I'd sooner question whether Mike Trout (or Jesus Dimaggio) is an entertainment value at $30 million per year (of which again I'm putting in very little and that indirectly); or a charity value, or any value close to the way his agent portrays it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

John, the TOUR does provide value to me. I enjoy watching the best in the world ply their trade. I always learn something about the game watching them play. I agree with your sentiments about what the TOUR does to courses. For twenty years I was a member at Sedgefield, home of the Wyndham,(the old Greater Greensboro Open). They made the course easy with pin placements and the course was torn up for weeks. It was nice to see the course highlighted once a year but after while that wears off.

[Kalen Braley]

I heard this TED talk a few years back that certainly changed some of my opinions on Charities and what we deem as 'valuable'...

Specifically the key takeaway for me was, whats 'better"?

A charity with a bigger staff that can raise $100 million and distribute $50 million ($.50 on the dollar) to end users?
Or
One that is more frugal with a smaller staff that raises $10 million, but gives away a higher % at $7.5 million?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfAzi6D5FpM

[John Kavanaugh]

The above assumes there is a finite amount of love in men’s hearts. This crisis is proving to the contrary.

[Peter Pallotta]

Bernie, Tommy -
yes: and along with the people/work you mention, I'd add several others, including those who help special needs children & adults, and the aged. I tend to think of those more as 'callings' than as professions; they sure tend to be paid much less. 
My main point was: it's easy to dismiss the value/importance of many things in the modern world...until you focus on the people instead of the profession.     

[Buck Wolter]

Why is Professional Golf the only sport measured by it's charitable contributions? I think the Premier Golf League is inevitable --Rory and Tiger should make 5-10X what they do on the course - if they then want to give it away that's up to them not some group of bureaucrats. I'm sure the NFL and NBA have charitable PR stuff but it's not their stated reason to exist -- cut the cord and put the money into the product. And before all the recently converted do-gooders accuse me of no heart -- think of the extra tax revenue that would be raised getting the money out of the non-profit PGA Tour and into the hands of individuals who are taxed at very high marginal rates.