If the greens are rock hard shouldn't they offer another alternative

[Tommy Williamsen]

than a shot through the air.


I have been in Colorado skiing this past month so I have not watched a lot ot golf or the AP, but what I have seen are well struck balls race though the green. We like firm and fast conditions but if the greens are going to be rock hard there needs to be a ground alternative. What say ye?

[Kalen Braley]

Tommy,

If we're talking how to keep scores lower when the best in the world are in town, given they won't address distance.... I've long felt that soft approaches mixed with firm greens is the most effective way to do it instead of the Carnoustie bowling alley solution or having way back tees.  Yes it would be a bit contrived, but its no different than the other options.

Then the other 51 weeks of the year leave the approaches normal....

[archie_struthers]

 




Hey the Bay Hill tournament was fun for the grinders. It's so firm and fast that they loft and drop, bomb and gauge didn't work too well. A nice change of pace for the viewers and for some of the golfers.


As to Kalen's point I'm not for soft approaches and firm greens at all. Think that it should be firm all over  !

[Tommy Williamsen]

Shouldn't there be an alternative so that even the oro can hit a reasonably decent shot with a birdie opportunity? Out of the demandingly think and gnarley rough par was a wish dream. It seems the AP had both bowling alley fairway and rock hard greens.

[archie_struthers]

 


Tommy just don't think the new skill set of the tour pros includes the bump and run as a matter of course.

[MCirba]

How much of today's difficult play and inability to stop the ball was due to the wind?


Played in Miami today with 20-30 mph winds and higher gusts.  Some approaches were impossible to hold if you landed on the green downwind.

[mike_beene]

If I heard correctly the field averaged under 50% greens in regulation. While the short game shots are fun to watch, a hole like 14 will not accept a perfect shot which seems to minimize skill.

[Edward Glidewell]

How much of today's difficult play and inability to stop the ball was due to the wind?


Played in Miami today with 20-30 mph winds and higher gusts.  Some approaches were impossible to hold if you landed on the green downwind.

I think it was almost entirely due to the wind. Those wind speeds aren't normal for the area, so courses aren't designed to be played in those conditions.


It's basically the reverse of what you see in some British/Irish links tournaments when scores get low on calm days.

[Duncan Cheslett]

If I heard correctly the field averaged under 50% greens in regulation. While the short game shots are fun to watch, a hole like 14 will not accept a perfect shot which seems to minimize skill.

If a shot didn’t hold the green then it wasn’t a perfect one. Skill involves adapting one’s game to the prevailing conditions, not playing computer golf.

[Adam Lawrence]

If I heard correctly the field averaged under 50% greens in regulation. While the short game shots are fun to watch, a hole like 14 will not accept a perfect shot which seems to minimize skill.

If a shot didn’t hold the green then it wasn’t a perfect one. Skill involves adapting one’s game to the prevailing conditions, not playing computer golf.

This. By definition.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

If a shot didn’t hold the green then it wasn’t a perfect one. Skill involves adapting one’s game to the prevailing conditions, not playing computer golf.

Perfect may be a bad word, but I think the point others are making in this is that if you hit a shot that hits the fringe a foot short of the green and sticks there, but a shot a foot on to the green bounds over the back into a bunker or thick rough… then something feels off about the course setup.

I've played courses like that - a lob wedge that hits the front of the green bounces over, and a 6I from the rough almost plugs a foot short of the putting surface in the fairway. There's virtually no way to play the course except to give yourself a putt for par.

[Thomas Dai]

Not my favourite type of course set-up but then I’m a short hitting, low ball flight amateur who usually has to land his longer shots short of greens and hopes to run them onto the putting surface rather than a fit young elite ball striker who hits the ball high and usually aims to land shots on the green.
I’m sure there’s a stats guy out there who can do a comparative analyse of how many full shot approach shots the guys we watch on TV land short and run onto greens vrs how many they land on the greens. Full field stats not just top of the leaderboard guys.
These guys are good though so they’ll find a way. Even occasionally hitting approach shots into greenside bunkers with the intent of making an up-n-down from the super smooth, perfectly raked bunkers with their super spiny custom grind sand clubs followed by a putt on a super smooth, blemish free putting surface with their custom fit putter having studied all aspects of the putt in conjunction with their caddie and their green reading contour book.
Atb

[Jon Wiggett]

And at the end of the day it is the same for everyone. It is still the layer with the lowest overall score that wins. I do agree that the course should be evenly firm across it's entirety though.

[Jason Topp]

I played in a member guest on the other coast of Florida over the weekend and the wind was brutal.  The conditions were like playing links golf both on the ground and in the air.  Trying to control flight and run-out was very challenging.


Unfortunately ponds and houses replaced dunes and heather.  Not my favorite but I was wearing shorts.

[Thomas Dai]

I played in a member guest on the other coast of Florida over the weekend and the wind was brutal.  The conditions were like playing links golf both on the ground and in the air.  Trying to control flight and run-out was very challenging.

One of the reasons why in general most GB&I links courses have more width. Which of course can make them play easier when the wind is minimal and/or the ground conditions are playing softer. Also why many a canny player knows to tone down their game and play more conservatively when the wind and weather are more severe.
Atb

[jeffwarne]

If I heard correctly the field averaged under 50% greens in regulation. While the short game shots are fun to watch, a hole like 14 will not accept a perfect shot which seems to minimize skill.

Sometimmes a different skill is required.
As in where to leave it for the best way to turn three shots into two.
Not every shot HAS to be possible, and that's where the mental skill and short game prowess come in.
Of course having consistent firm approaches is ideal, but not always practical in certain soil etc. and as Kalen points out, if they're not going to address the modern tech gains, this isn't any goofier of a way to drive up scores than the multiple other game torturing solutions often suggested by the control the scores police...

[Sean_A]

Sometimmes a different skill is required.
As in where to leave it for the best way to turn three shots into two.
Not every shot HAS to be possible, and that's where the mental skill and short game prowess come in.

Cha Ching.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Sometimmes a different skill is required.
As in where to leave it for the best way to turn three shots into two.
Not every shot HAS to be possible, and that's where the mental skill and short game prowess come in.

Cha Ching.

Ciao

Certainly agree with Jeff here as well.  The Tour needs more balance, and giving the skill and/or mental guys more opportunities to show thier chops, over the mindless bomb and gouge, would be a good thing.

[mike_beene]

I am not saying I didn't like it. There is a line somewhere between skill and luck. However, part of golf is adapting to bad breaks.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sometimmes a different skill is required.
As in where to leave it for the best way to turn three shots into two.
Not every shot HAS to be possible, and that's where the mental skill and short game prowess come in.

Cha Ching.

Ciao

A few years ago I played with an assistant at his course in Jersey. I hit my tee shot into behind a couple of trees. The assistant told me to chip it out. I hit a low running slice onto the green. "I don't have that shot." he opined. "Sometimes a different skill is required," for sure. As a kid my pro made me learn all kinds of shots from all kinds of places and lies. God bless him.

[Jon Wiggett]

A few years ago I played with an assistant at his course in Jersey. I hit my tee shot into behind a couple of trees. The assistant told me to chip it out. I hit a low running slice onto the green. "I don't have that shot." he opined.

I would have thought his reaction would have been 'wow, show me how you did that!'

[Ken Moum]

A few years ago I played with an assistant at his course in Jersey. I hit my tee shot into behind a couple of trees. The assistant told me to chip it out. I hit a low running slice onto the green. "I don't have that shot." he opined.

I would have thought his reaction would have been 'wow, show me how you did that!'

SHOULD have been.


But that would be "un-American" 😁