National Club Golfer's GB&I Top 100 For Fun

[Sean_A]

I recall many years ago when playing Southerness that we paired it with Powfoot rather than St Medan. I haven't been back in the area since!

Ciao

[Keith Durrant]

I played St Medan when I was a young lad on a holiday trip to Scotland, and it made a great impression on me of how fun seaside golf could be, and a life-long memory playing with my Dad!


All I can recall 40 years later is that it is hilly, some blind shots, the ball would run for miles, and there are a couple of fun holes by the beach.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Surprised in their descriptions no one mentioned the fun of the recovery shot. Three things influence this


Half par holes.  (Often this means shorter, it's just not the overall length of the course that determines "Fun"....)
Finding the ball so you often have a shot, albeit one a lot more 'interesting'. Anyone held the 13 green at NBWL with a wood?
The greens and their surrounds. (the recovery can involve a lay up and chip)




ON that basis I wouldn't include Rye.  It may be short on paper but its a tough track. Go wide and you're hacking out of 'stuff' to  small well defended greens. Swinley plays longer than its yardage and the par 3's are long and tough if you miss. Similar thoughts about Ballybunion Cashen (miss and you're dead), Tralee,  RSG and The Addington.  (PS I really like all these courses BTW).


In come 5 of
Formby, Western Gales, Eden, The New, Carnoustie Burnside and Saunton West.


PS
Have played 59 and likely add another 9 this year.  Will play at least 4 other courses that I think could be contenders. But its as arbitrary as any other list so I won't be trying to tick them all, even if the concept remains of interest.


PPS
Deal on another top 100 list. That's the 3rd in the first two months of this year! People are recognising the fun factor at last.


PPPS
Alnmouth Village has "hints of Rye". Who wrote that?

[Sean_A]

Spangles

Like the courses you mentioned, Deal is very difficult and loaded with harsh rough... no? Deal does have some cool terrain though. As you say, the idea of fun is arbitrary.

Saunton West has harsh rough and while good, I don't find the course charming.

I agree with Ballybunion Cashen. There are way too many lost ball situations because of the combination of architecture and terrain. It reminds me a ton of Rosapenna Sandy Links. I think of both places as cart golf with beer, drive around and hit the cool shots then bolt. They simply do not work well as courses. They are really a series of shots, so why not pick the shots you want to hit and ignore the rest?

PS

I think an important factor of fun courses is quick to play.  This implies shortish yardage, short green to tee walks and little searching for balls.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

How the heck did they miss Strandhill? (At Strandhill, some of us got the extra pleasure of watching Clyde try to dry his clothes with a blow drier.)

With only 14 courses from the Emerald Isle, they most certainly did it a disservice.

[Sean_A]

Garland

No list can satisfy everybody.

I agree about Strandhill. Castlerock Bann 9 should also be included.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I did think about Deal but the course just has so much Funky Stuff that you never normally hear about...


Yes biased and it definitely helps knowing where to look for your ball BUT


- under Course Manager Sir James Bledge a lot of the worst rough has been tamed. Right of 10 and 11, Short of 4 and left of 17 used to be lost balls. 
- the wind rarely blows at 90 degrees to the fairways. Makes for more interesting golf and less shots way off line. 


I really don't think of Deal as a course where losing balls is an issue.






This has reminded me, Golf is most fun where wind and the ground game interact. Links pretty much all the way for my top 100.

[Sean_A]

In recent years folks say the rough has been tamed at Deal, but that isn't my experience.

Ciao

[Bernie Bell]

No one is really talking about how fun the bunkers are at any particular course. 

[jeffwarne]

I think the courses in Ireland got shortchanged badly. But nice to see Cruit Island on there.

The Irish courses are (in order):

Lahinch
Cruit Island
Old Head
RCD Annesley
Carne
Rosapenna Old Tom
Tralee
Portrush Valley
Ballybunion Cashen
Dooks
Corballis
Castlerock
Ardglass
Spanish Point

That list is beyond arbitrary with some fun courses, some courses that are at the other end of the scale and one or two that are just weak(ish).

But I guess it's another discussion point.

Northwest GC is a glaring omission from such a list when referencing Ireland
followed by aforementioned Strandhill and then Mahoney's Point at Killarney

[Niall C]

I think the courses in Ireland got shortchanged badly. But nice to see Cruit Island on there.

The Irish courses are (in order):

Lahinch
Cruit Island
Old Head
RCD Annesley
Carne
Rosapenna Old Tom
Tralee
Portrush Valley
Ballybunion Cashen
Dooks
Corballis
Castlerock
Ardglass
Spanish Point

That list is beyond arbitrary with some fun courses, some courses that are at the other end of the scale and one or two that are just weak(ish).

But I guess it's another discussion point.

In contrast to Ireland to my reckoning Scotland has 41. Is that an over provision for Scotland ? Probably but what I think is more skewed is that there are 35 seaside/links courses as opposed to 6 inland and absolutely no (Scottish) big city courses unless you include Murcar.

You can argue the relative merits but to me there is a whole plethora of courses that simply get by-passed because of where they are. Statistically they can't all be bad or no fun.

Niall

[Garland Bayley]

In contrast to Ireland to my reckoning Scotland has 41. Is that an over provision for Scotland ? Probably but what I think is more skewed is that there are 35 seaside/links courses as opposed to 6 inland and absolutely no (Scottish) big city courses unless you include Murcar.

You can argue the relative merits but to me there is a whole plethora of courses that simply get by-passed because of where they are. Statistically they can't all be bad or no fun.

Niall

Not because of where they are, but because of what they are. Links courses are fun! I would posit that people travel to play links courses more than they travel to play inland courses, because links courses are fun. Therefore, it is only natural for links courses to appear in such a list at a much higher rate than inland courses.

Certainly most everyone that is member of this website understands why links courses are more fun than inland courses, so I don't need to go into that.

[Thomas Dai]

Out of curiosity here are the courses categorised as either heathlands or inland hilltop/moorland. I'm sure we could bicker over which category some of them or some others should be in but the numbers by general category in relation to 'top-100 fun' are interesting.


Heathlands (16)
Swinley Forest
Boat of Garten
Sunningdale Old
The Addington
Huntercombe
Reigate Heath
Woking
Isle of Purbeck
New Zealand
Piltdown
Parkstone
East Devon
Blairgowrie
Beau Desert
Liphook
Granton on Spey


Inland hilltop (7)
(aka 'upland', 'downland' or 'moorland')
Kington
Painswick
Cleeve Hill
Welshpool
Church Stretton
Windermere
Appleby


atb


PS


Wales (5)
Pennard
Aberdovey
Welshpool
Nefyn
Tenby

[Duncan Cheslett]

Out of curiosity here are the courses categorised as either heathlands or inland hilltop/moorland. I'm sure we could bicker over which category some of them or some others should be in but the numbers by general category in relation to 'top-100 fun' are interesting.


Heathlands (16)
Swinley Forest
Boat of Garten
Sunningdale Old
The Addington
Huntercombe
Reigate Heath
Woking
Isle of Purbeck
New Zealand
Piltdown
Parkstone
East Devon
Blairgowrie
Beau Desert
Liphook
Granton on Spey


Inland hilltop (7)
(aka 'upland', 'downland' or 'moorland')
Kington
Painswick
Cleeve Hill
Welshpool
Church Stretton
Windermere
Appleby


atb


PS


Wales (5)
Pennard
Aberdovey
Welshpool
Nefyn
Tenby

How do you define Heathland?


Moorland is generally recognised as being “upland Heath” being of similar ecology and the result of woodland clearance and animal grazing.


Cavendish by this reckoning should be included in your list of heathland courses.


The presence or otherwise of heather is irrelevant. Despite the vernacular similarity heathland has nothing to do with heather.

[Bill Gayne]

I would add Fraserburgh and take off Spanish Point.

[Thomas Dai]

How do you define Heathland?
Moorland is generally recognised as being “upland Heath” being of similar ecology and the result of woodland clearance and animal grazing.
Cavendish by this reckoning should be included in your list of heathland courses.
The presence or otherwise of heather is irrelevant. Despite the vernacular similarity heathland has nothing to do with heather.

I'd hoped to pre-empt such with my second sentence above, "I'm sure we could bicker over which category some of them or some others should be in but the numbers by general category in relation to 'top-100 fun' are interesting." but I guess not!
Include or exclude any particular course you wish. It's the indicative nature of the listing that I'm looking at, heavily leaning as it is towards links and seaside courses rather than the likes of 'heathlands' and 'inland hilltops'. As to definitions, there are a few threads herein debating the definitions issue.
atb

[Sean_A]

Duncan

Do you think Cavendish feels or plays like a moorland course? To me it feels very much a parkland course. That said, every heathland course has varying degrees of parkland feel because of too many trees, wrong mix of grass and less than ideal rough management.

Are there any out and out parkland courses on the list?

I think The Players Club Stranahan Course would fit nicely on this list.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

I think The Players Club Stranahan Course would fit nicely on this list.

Ciao

Good Call

Folks on their way to Buda should consider this. Its just off the M4 and close to Painswick, Minchamptoin, Cleeve Cloud etc

[Tom_Doak]

It's nice to see some other courses get their moment in the spotlight, but this ranking and the responses so far have clarified for me that "fun" is even more arbitrary than "great" and therefore a pretty silly criterion by which to rank golf courses.


I'm not saying fun is not important, I'm saying it's hard to quantify.

[Sean_A]

It's nice to see some other courses get their moment in the spotlight, but this ranking and the responses so far have clarified for me that "fun" is even more arbitrary than "great" and therefore a pretty silly criterion by which to rank golf courses.

I'm not saying fun is not important, I'm saying it's hard to quantify.

Fun is probably harder to qualtify than great because what is great is largely a function of how many courses one has seen.

Is there a term to codify courses which isn't silly?  People even get down on the idea of favourites!

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Fun is probably harder to qualtify than great because what is great is largely a function of how many courses one has seen.


Is there a term to codify courses which isn't silly?  People even get down on the idea of favourites!

I don't have a problem with favo(u)rite as an idea, but again, it doesn't lend itself well to a consensus ranking, especially as it allows in more factors outside of the golf course itself.


The more we explore this, the more I lean toward the conclusion that all rankings are arbitrary and pointless.

[Sean_A]

Fun is probably harder to qualtify than great because what is great is largely a function of how many courses one has seen.

Is there a term to codify courses which isn't silly?  People even get down on the idea of favourites!

I don't have a problem with favo(u)rite as an idea, but again, it doesn't lend itself well to a consensus ranking, especially as it allows in more factors outside of the golf course itself.

The more we explore this, the more I lean toward the conclusion that all rankings are arbitrary and pointless.

Concensus ranking?  I am forever trying to get folks to give me their noin concensus rankings of any sort!  I agree that all rankings are arbitrary.  I disagree rankings are pointless. IMO rankings can effect the bottom line of courses, designers etc. I am not saying its right, but a lot about golf isn't right.  On a lighter side of the things, rankings aid golfers with travel plans etc. 


Ciao

[jeffwarne]

"Rankings" may be the wrong term.
When it comes to "fun" courses especially.
I would argue that 9 of the Top 10 courses(make that 10 because I absolutely love Perranporth) on the "Fun" list are also Great golf courses that belong on a top 100 list
"Fun List" might be a better word with no numerical ranking. Hard to say Swinley Forest is that much more "fun" than Durness or even "Corrie" or "St Medans" both of which I now have to seek out..



"Lists" by category such as this one are brilliant and I believe have more impact than people realize.
People need a starting point, and many/most don't have access or funds to many courses on a Top 100 World or US list, but don't want to settle for the average "member for a day" or shite resort course on offer.


Having taken some incredibly wealthy and sucessful people(the target of most Travel companies) to many of the courses that have since turned out to be on this list, I could easily see giving out this list to someone planning a trip to GB&I to supplement the "Big Guns" they might be playing in a given area.In my experience people enjoy the "local" and off the beaten path experience, and for a trip organizer such places are God sends because they are most often far more flexible with tee times, arrival time, dinner, PRICE, HOSPITALITY etc., and generally lay out the red carpet welcoming experience. My members reference their days and experiences at Brora , Dunaverty and Shiskine far more than they ever do Troon or Turnberry(prerenovation), but both categories are essential(in their minds at least) to give a varied trip if nothing else to show them the endless possibilities for further trips.
When working with travel companies at a member's insistence, I've met resistance when introducing such venues-perhaps due to conflict of interest.


I once had a bus driver who grew up in Donegal who was absolutely shocked when I told him Otway was on the itinerary.
He laughed and said he hadn't been since he was a boy to "where even the sheep wear helmets"
 

[Thomas Dai]

Firstly, I’d echo Sean and Tony’s comments on the merits of Adrian’s Stranahan Course north east of Bristol.


Secondly, Jeff makes a whole bunch of valid points above especially how such lists provide a good starting point in relation to courses other than the usual big name subjects folks travel to play.


As to ‘fun’, it is indeed a pretty subjective matter. To me an important aspect to ‘fun’ is how frequently I’d like to play the course concerned. Some on the list I could play frequently. Others less so. And some if your legs ain’t good or your health is in some way impaired and for some reason you can’t access a buggy, would be downright torture to the extent that you might never wish to return or even not be able to finish the round.
Atb
(WW)

[Bernie Bell]

A club where I feel warmly welcomed is always more fun to me than a course, regardless how "great," where I am perfunctorily tolerated.