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Ronald Montesano

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Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« on: February 28, 2020, 05:43:39 AM »
Our GCA voice from Erie, PA, Erik J. Barzeski (also our resident teaching pro, and all-around, approachable guy) did an interview that ran this week. Have a read, if the snow piles high (or if the sun shines brightly.)


http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/interview-with-erik-j-barzeski/



Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2020, 08:57:58 AM »
Well done, gents - an enjoyable read, thanks.
Brought to mind the one lesson I ever took:
A CPGA professional and nice young fellow, but -- though I didn't realize it at the time or have the language to explain it -- he must've been a 'positions' guy, i.e. when I was half way down he told me my hands should be *here* and the shaft angled *there* etc.
In one sense, he was absolutely right: that's where my hands and the clubface etc *should be*
But he lost me that first session, and I never went back.
I realized later that I didn't want to know the facts/the positions, I wanted to get a feeling of how my body should move in order that I could *get to* those positions, naturally & inevitably.
I have seen him several time since in the clubhouse, and always wanted to half apologize -- or at least say that he wasn't doing anything *wrong*, it just didn't work for me. But I always end up thinking it's better to leave it alone.
Teaching - tough racket.
P

Tim Martin

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2020, 09:11:26 AM »
I have seen him several time since in the clubhouse, and always wanted to half apologize -- or at least say that he wasn't doing anything *wrong*, it just didn't work for me. But I always end up thinking it's better to leave it alone.
Teaching - tough racket.
P


I would lean on advice from Queen Elsa. “Let it Go.”
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 12:43:32 PM by Tim Martin »

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2020, 12:40:30 PM »

A really interesting and enjoyable interview. I always think most interviews fail to deliver but not this one. Although it often appears Erik and myself do not always see eye to eye I do wonder how much is to do with internet communication rather than personality clash.


Jon

David Harshbarger

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2020, 02:03:02 PM »
Good interview.  Really enjoyed hearing the perspective and thoughts on what makes a good and effective instructor.


Thanks for putting this together.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Peter Flory

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2020, 02:17:56 PM »
That is a good point about golf (and tennis) really being the only sports where amateurs take regular lessons.

The part that I think would be most challenging about being an instructor is that changing one fundamental will likely make a student worse before it makes them better as they have several compensating motions.  It has to be hard to make those core changes without quickly losing the student to frustration. 

Like all of us, I've given tips to higher handicap players and family members, etc.  The way that I try to empathize with them is to think about swinging left handed.  i.e. I know all the theory and positions, but my left handed swing just doesn't produce like my right handed swing (my wife is a lefty, so I always hit a few with her clubs at the range).  That is the difference between knowing what to do and having muscle memory.  So, like Peter P was saying, knowing is only half the battle and a good instructor spends a lot of time on finding ways to impart the muscle memory aspect, not just comparing checkpoints. 

One thing that I've noticed in the personalities of people who are able to get good at golf vs those who stagnate is that the players who improve are those who are more willing to exaggerate changes until they build out the muscle memory.  The stagnaters seem unwilling to over correct and just try to go from what they are doing directly to the desired outcome. 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 02:20:55 PM by Peter Flory »

jeffwarne

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2020, 02:32:19 PM »
Great Interview.
Congtats to Erik and Ron!
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2020, 11:32:18 PM »
Teaching - tough racket.
One of the toughest things are "the ones that got away," and by that, I mean that sometimes you'll give what you think is a good lesson, then a student never returns. I met up with a fellow today who I gave a lesson to in 2016. He said "It was the best lesson I ever got." His reason for never returning? He lives three and a half hours away, and now that he's dating a woman in Buffalo, plans to come back a few times this spring.

But sometimes a guy or gal will just not come back, and you are left to wonder… did I say something that confused them? Do they think "things are good now, I don't ant to screw this up!" (We've heard that reason from students, too.)

A really interesting and enjoyable interview. I always think most interviews fail to deliver but not this one.
Thank you.

Good interview.  Really enjoyed hearing the perspective and thoughts on what makes a good and effective instructor.
I appreciate that.

That is a good point about golf (and tennis) really being the only sports where amateurs take regular lessons.
Kinda weird. I joke that I'm waiting for golfers to wake up and realize this… and yet, most kinda have, since well under 20% of golfers really ever take a (paid) lesson.

The part that I think would be most challenging about being an instructor is that changing one fundamental will likely make a student worse before it makes them better as they have several compensating motions.  It has to be hard to make those core changes without quickly losing the student to frustration.
There are some changes like that, and yeah, as you say, they're often the ones where they have a few compensations "stacked" on top of one another. It's tough to change two things at once, or three… but if someone's compensating with two or three moves, they'll often "stick around" while you change the primary thing. And it can be tough.

So, like Peter P was saying, knowing is only half the battle and a good instructor spends a lot of time on finding ways to impart the muscle memory aspect, not just comparing checkpoints.
Everyone is a feel player.

One thing that I've noticed in the personalities of people who are able to get good at golf vs those who stagnate is that the players who improve are those who are more willing to exaggerate changes until they build out the muscle memory. The stagnaters seem unwilling to over correct and just try to go from what they are doing directly to the desired outcome.
I'll add to that the idea that many of them are willing to do drills - slowly, or with shorter swings, with lots of (exaggerated) rehearsals.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2020, 09:32:46 AM »
Teaching - tough racket.
One of the toughest things are "the ones that got away," and by that, I mean that sometimes you'll give what you think is a good lesson, then a student never returns. I met up with a fellow today who I gave a lesson to in 2016. He said "It was the best lesson I ever got." His reason for never returning? He lives three and a half hours away, and now that he's dating a woman in Buffalo, plans to come back a few times this spring.

But sometimes a guy or gal will just not come back, and you are left to wonder… did I say something that confused them? Do they think "things are good now, I don't ant to screw this up!" (We've heard that reason from students, too.)






Good information in this interview.
To your point Erik, Some people take the one lesson and absorb the material for years-especially if they obtain the results they sought.
Others want a steady diet of feedback.
Sometimes it's simply about geographic location or price.
i often refer current/former students to instructors in their area that I know and respect who are more convenient for them to access than my remote/traffic nightmare island location
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2020, 11:21:28 AM »

Erik was also recently on the 'On the Mark Podcast' talking scoring
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/pga-tour/on-the-mark-2/e/67430210


Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2020, 02:12:16 PM »
Have had, at the most, 2 lessons, in my 50+ years of playing.  Did me little good.  I am / was probably part of the problem.
I felt that the instructor was just feeding me the generic formula and not paying much attention to someone 6'-5".
Now a days, most instruction, IMO, is geared toward a teenager w/ a 2 handicap that with some tweaking could get to scratch.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2020, 02:38:04 PM »
Have had, at the most, 2 lessons, in my 50+ years of playing.  Did me little good.  I am / was probably part of the problem.
I felt that the instructor was just feeding me the generic formula and not paying much attention to someone 6'-5".
Now a days, most instruction, IMO, is geared toward a teenager w/ a 2 handicap that with some tweaking could get to scratch.


Carl,
When you say "most instruction" what are you referring to?
If you're not actively taking lessons fro a wide variety of teachers or in the business, what are you basing that on?
What you see on the internet?
I'd say instruction is the best it's ever been as there are so many qualified and well trained instructors out there.
far more than there were even 20 years ago, much less 30-40.
Most are catering to the rank and file 10-30 handicap and beginner market.
and,,,as always... there are plenty of quacks out there(especially on the internet)-many of whom follow the tour around as ambulance chasers
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2020, 04:17:39 PM »
Have had, at the most, 2 lessons, in my 50+ years of playing.  Did me little good.  I am / was probably part of the problem.
I felt that the instructor was just feeding me the generic formula and not paying much attention to someone 6'-5".
Now a days, most instruction, IMO, is geared toward a teenager w/ a 2 handicap that with some tweaking could get to scratch.


Carl,
When you say "most instruction" what are you referring to?
If you're not actively taking lessons fro a wide variety of teachers or in the business, what are you basing that on?
What you see on the internet?
I'd say instruction is the best it's ever been as there are so many qualified and well trained instructors out there.
far more than there were even 20 years ago, much less 30-40.
Most are catering to the rank and file 10-30 handicap and beginner market.
and,,,as always... there are plenty of quacks out there(especially on the internet)-many of whom follow the tour around as ambulance chasers


I'm just relating my limited  experiences through the years observing lessons on the range while practicing myself. 
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2020, 05:28:48 PM »
Erik was also recently on the 'On the Mark Podcast' talking scoring
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/pga-tour/on-the-mark-2/e/67430210
Yes, Mark does a great job. We had no idea what he was going to ask, and naturally there are a few things I'd state a bit differently, but we felt it was pretty good. Thanks for listening (assuming you did).

Have had, at the most, 2 lessons, in my 50+ years of playing.  Did me little good.  I am / was probably part of the problem.I felt that the instructor was just feeding me the generic formula and not paying much attention to someone 6'-5".
You may have been part of the problem, but even some of that goes back on the instructor: if he didn't tell you HOW to practice, then how are you to know? But if he did all of that, and gave you a good lesson with your "priority piece" as I call it, and you just didn't do it, maybe some of it's on you. :)

FWIW I think most instructors are really, really pretty lousy. Recycled stuff, no actual study of the golf swing or the new information available to us, still teaching the same old things, throwing out 10 different thoughts in a single lesson, etc. The number of bad instructors is decreasing, but it's still too high. Bad instructors bring the whole field down.


Now a days, most instruction, IMO, is geared toward a teenager w/ a 2 handicap that with some tweaking could get to scratch.
Instagram and YouTube like to show off better players, because even a 10 handicap isn't likely to watch a video from someone who is just taking up the game.

I'd say instruction is the best it's ever been as there are so many qualified and well trained instructors out there.
far more than there were even 20 years ago, much less 30-40.
Agree completely, as well as with the rest of your post. Instruction is as good as it has ever been.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2020, 10:15:32 PM »
"We can show all golfers that lessons make you better, faster, than working on your own."

This seems to be a bit of a stretch to me. Defend!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2020, 07:26:17 AM »
Garland, I have a daughter taking on-line classes for a second bachelors. She rues not being in class with others, as the human element, the camaraderie, the exchanges, are all absent. In her case (which parallels what EJB states) being "shown" would be quicker than digging it out herself.


For every Hogan, who dug it out of the dirt and became a legend, there are hundreds of thousands who dug a hole, got stuck there, and never came out. A quality professional will take up your cause (despite the payments you make) and will take great pride in your success.


That's how we teachers are wired: we don't give a hairy sh!t about anything beyond the success of the student. Case Study #1: the exchange to Spain, that I was to chaperone in late March, was just cancelled, due to the virus. I love Spain, and am gutted to not return to Asturias. I am thrice-gutted (if not more) for the students and my co-chaperone (her first trip to Iberia) who will not have this opportunity.


Oh! How were they to have it? A self-guided tour? NO! They were to live with a host family for 3 weeks, a family that would serve as their "professionals" and would guide them toward knowing the country and its principal language. Funny the parallels...
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2020, 08:01:45 AM »
Nothing like throwing PGA professionals under the bus.....Very nice


"FWIW I think most instructors are really, really pretty lousy. Recycled stuff, no actual study of the golf swing or the new information available to us, still teaching the same old things, throwing out 10 different thoughts in a single lesson, etc. The number of bad instructors is decreasing, but it's still too high. Bad instructors bring the whole field down."
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If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2020, 10:14:29 AM »
There are some lousy Spanish teachers. I suspect that I'm not one of them. However, each year that I have my assessment, I confront areas of weakness. Fortunately for me (that I'm aware of) there is no Spanish Teacher Atlas, where my flaws are exposed.


I don't think that we fight transparency with vitriol (which is always a potential footpath in debate.)


EJB made an observation, and backed it up with reasoning. The direction this could go, is probably not a solid one for GCA.


Is it possible to change course, and ask if/how his teaching allows golfers to appreciate/solve the puzzle of golf course architecture?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2020, 01:47:51 PM »
Nothing like throwing PGA professionals under the bus.....Very nice


"FWIW I think most instructors are really, really pretty lousy. Recycled stuff, no actual study of the golf swing or the new information available to us, still teaching the same old things, throwing out 10 different thoughts in a single lesson, etc. The number of bad instructors is decreasing, but it's still too high. Bad instructors bring the whole field down."




Rob,



you can say these things if you are '2019 WNY PGA Teacher of the Year' or Golf Digest Best Young Teacher '16-'17 and Best in State '17-'20 '

I am sure it endears him to his fellow teaching professionals. Of course it does not hide the fact that those who cannot do, teach  ;D
Jon
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 01:58:14 PM by Jon Wiggett »

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2020, 05:55:21 PM »
Nothing like throwing PGA professionals under the bus.....Very nice


"FWIW I think most instructors are really, really pretty lousy. Recycled stuff, no actual study of the golf swing or the new information available to us, still teaching the same old things, throwing out 10 different thoughts in a single lesson, etc. The number of bad instructors is decreasing, but it's still too high. Bad instructors bring the whole field down."

Rob,Perhaps this will help. 

Two tools now available to golf instructors are Trackman (or something similar) and video capability, complete with the ability to put players side by side with another player or a pro, slow motion, the ability to draw lines on the screen, and so on.
Having those things does NOT make somebody a good instructor, but NOT having them in 2020 calls into immediate question how effective the instruction will be, at least compared to what it COULD be.  And yet, there are teaching pros all over the place that actually refuse to use those tools; some even make the statement that they don't need them and can do better without them.  Which is absurd, of course; what the teacher really means is that they can't or won't either afford and/or learn to use those tools.

For instance, we now KNOW the angles of attack on the golf ball that a good swing produces, and we know to a dead certainty that having those angles not be where they need to be will limit distance and accuracy.  I can absolutely guarantee you that the human eye cannot accurately discern angle of attack from one swing to the next, but it is a relatively simple matter with video and Trackman. 

It isn't throwing anybody under the bus to say that if they aren't constantly trying to stay current with research and technology that they probably aren't very good at what they are doing, or at least not as good as they could be.  It's a reality; harsh to be sure, but a reality.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2020, 06:32:15 PM »
Have had, at the most, 2 lessons, in my 50+ years of playing.  Did me little good.  I am / was probably part of the problem.
I felt that the instructor was just feeding me the generic formula and not paying much attention to someone 6'-5".
Now a days, most instruction, IMO, is geared toward a teenager w/ a 2 handicap that with some tweaking could get to scratch.


Carl,
When you say "most instruction" what are you referring to?
If you're not actively taking lessons fro a wide variety of teachers or in the business, what are you basing that on?
What you see on the internet?
I'd say instruction is the best it's ever been as there are so many qualified and well trained instructors out there.
far more than there were even 20 years ago, much less 30-40.
Most are catering to the rank and file 10-30 handicap and beginner market.
and,,,as always... there are plenty of quacks out there(especially on the internet)-many of whom follow the tour around as ambulance chasers


I'm just relating my limited  experiences through the years observing lessons on the range while practicing myself.


That reminds of being on the range early in my career after doing 22 straight 1/2 hour lessons (a familiar practice at that club which I quickly squashed....but I digress)
a member I did not recognize came up and told me "your lesson didn't work"
A bit confused, I asked him when I had given him a lesson...he replied "I was in the stall next to you while you were working with Mr. Rabinowitz and the stuff you told him didn't help me at all"


I'd suggest if you're serious about improving or simply want to opine on "most instruction" that you widen your sample size :)
Good ones are out there, and they easier to find than ever via word of mouth, internet, Magazine lists etc.
Like any profession, there is a wide range of talent.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 07:20:53 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2020, 06:41:37 PM »
Nothing like throwing PGA professionals under the bus.....Very nice


"FWIW I think most instructors are really, really pretty lousy. Recycled stuff, no actual study of the golf swing or the new information available to us, still teaching the same old things, throwing out 10 different thoughts in a single lesson, etc. The number of bad instructors is decreasing, but it's still too high. Bad instructors bring the whole field down."

Rob,Perhaps this will help. 

Two tools now available to golf instructors are Trackman (or something similar) and video capability, complete with the ability to put players side by side with another player or a pro, slow motion, the ability to draw lines on the screen, and so on.
Having those things does NOT make somebody a good instructor, but NOT having them in 2020 calls into immediate question how effective the instruction will be, at least compared to what it COULD be.  And yet, there are teaching pros all over the place that actually refuse to use those tools; some even make the statement that they don't need them and can do better without them.  Which is absurd, of course; what the teacher really means is that they can't or won't either afford and/or learn to use those tools.

For instance, we now KNOW the angles of attack on the golf ball that a good swing produces, and we know to a dead certainty that having those angles not be where they need to be will limit distance and accuracy.  I can absolutely guarantee you that the human eye cannot accurately discern angle of attack from one swing to the next, but it is a relatively simple matter with video and Trackman. 

It isn't throwing anybody under the bus to say that if they aren't constantly trying to stay current with research and technology that they probably aren't very good at what they are doing, or at least not as good as they could be.  It's a reality; harsh to be sure, but a reality.


Good post AG.
I will quibble a bit though as long before Trackman(and without video) we could identify angle of attack with the naked eye (face on view or down the line) and could prescribe multiple drills to address (5 wood off a high tee drill, air swings etc.)
That said, Video and Trackman are important tools certainly for many students in seeing it or feeling it for themselves-especially visual learners. And of course while we can see a difference with the naked eye, Trackman can quantify it.
I always say I own my initial success to being perhaps  one of, if not the first teacher on Hilton Head to have a video camera ($1200 in 1987) and I got the opportunity to teach many elite pupils I probably didn't deserve at that early stage in my career by virture of having the camera.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 07:16:24 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2020, 07:15:20 PM »
Nothing like throwing PGA professionals under the bus.....Very nice
I didn't say "PGA professionals." As you probably know, one doesn't need to be a PGA member to be a golf instructor or a pro. Most of the PGA members around me don't really teach - they're shop guys, directors of golf, head or assistant pros, etc. And a good number of the instructors around me aren't in the PGA. And some of the best instructors I can name aren't in the PGA.

I stand by what I said. Most instructors and coaches aren't staying current. They're not taking the effort to advance their understanding of the game. They're teaching the same things they've been teaching for 30 years. They're bad at prioritizing. They throw out 10 or 12 things in a lesson and in the hopes that something sticks. And this hurts the golf instruction industry.

Why be afraid to be critical? I'm not. Mr. Doak famously expressed (and continues to express) his opinions. He wasn't afraid of saying what he felt was the truth (to him), even before he'd really established himself. If someone said "most golf courses have lousy architecture," would anyone here bat an eye? Golf is expensive. Golf instruction is expensive. I'd love it if the level of golf instruction was higher than it is. It's being raised, and it's better now than ever, and I don't see that growth or trend stopping. We have more tools, more information, more understanding, etc. at our disposal. For those who want to better themselves, the opportunities are there.

There are some lousy Spanish teachers. I suspect that I'm not one of them. However, each year that I have my assessment, I confront areas of weakness. Fortunately for me (that I'm aware of) there is no Spanish Teacher Atlas, where my flaws are exposed.
Because you care, because you address and confront areas of weakness, you're almost surely nowhere near even average, Ron. In golf, many have remained at the same level as they've always been. They don't care enough to advance in their own abilities as an instructor.

Is it possible to change course, and ask if/how his teaching allows golfers to appreciate/solve the puzzle of golf course architecture?
I think my answers there disappoint most folks here. I think that every golfer can pretty much reduce the "puzzle" down to something that's pretty simple. It'll vary slightly from golfer to golfer, depending on their length, skills, preferences, etc. but scoring in golf is very close to a "solved" problem. We're pretty well aware of "how good you can get" at some things, like putting (i.e. nobody will ever be good enough to make 90% of their 10-foot putts for any extended period of time playing real golf courses in the real world), etc. So you can pretty easily break down the probabilities of scoring from different shots and different areas, as myself, Broadie, Fawcett, etc. have done.

I appreciate golf course architecture for two reasons, primarily:
  • Just the general beauty of what you're looking at, or the exhilaration, or the awe at what man or nature can envision or create.
  • I enjoy overcoming the difficulty, in feeling a sense of accomplishment, particularly when a hole happens to be designed in such a way that the ideal strategy isn't the most obvious. If a golf course can ask enough questions of you, without just bludgeoning you over the head with difficulty - if it can reward good shots (not all, but mostly) and punish bad shots (not always, but mostly) appropriately, you can measure yourself and the work you've put in and your play and decisions, and feel good about yourself when you meet that challenge.
(These somewhat explain my feelings about Tobacco Road - while TR is very good at 1, in that it's painterly, abstract, interesting, unique, etc. - I don't feel it does the second all that well.)

But anyway, yah, most of the time the decisions are pretty simple. Sometimes, you can still have a good challenge, even with a clear decision… but you still have to pull off a shot. What's the strategy on the 7th at Pebble Beach? It's pretty clear - hit the green. But how you do that still presents a challenge and an opportunity to play a shot you feel good about playing. Do you chip an 8I? Full sand wedge? Where to aim in this cross-wind? Even when the decision is clear, golf can still present an interesting challenge to you. Plus the 7th at Pebble is good at #1, too.  :)

Of course it does not hide the fact that those who cannot do, teach.
I had typed more, but suffice to say, this is a tired old saying that's flat out wrong far more often than it's right. Increasingly so, too.

It isn't throwing anybody under the bus to say that if they aren't constantly trying to stay current with research and technology that they probably aren't very good at what they are doing, or at least not as good as they could be.  It's a reality; harsh to be sure, but a reality.
I don't even use all of those tools in literally every lesson I have. You don't often need to know the exact AoA of a 22-handicapper who is still learning to find the club face. They're tools, just like a golf course architect doesn't always use certain architecture features, or certain landscaping equipment, on every hole, or even every course.

You're right, AG, that my point is that there are too many instructors who, IMO, are not doing much if anything to advance their understanding of the game. It's disappointing, and it drags the instruction industry down.

a member I did not recognize came up and told me "your lesson didn't work"A bit confused, I asked him when I had given him a lesson...he replied "I was in the stall next to you while you were working with Mr. Rabinowitz and the stuff you told him didn't help me at all"
Ha ha ha ha ha. I love it. Thanks, Jeff.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2020, 08:44:59 PM »

Erik, regarding teaching golf, how do you think instructors (PGA or otherwise) stack up on teaching how to "play the game"?  In my experience, not so hot, or not at all.  That is, ball striking, etc., the technical (and mental) aspects, and "scoring" and lowering your handicap, are good things to teach, but how about the "game" itself?  Obviously, I'm not talking about guys and gals who hope to make a living playing professionally (the less-than-one-percenters).  But about keeping the game alive for those whose interest makes it possible for the superstars (and teaching and club pros) to make a living.  The enjoyment of match play and other (than medal) forms of competition, etiquette and spirit of the game (both too old fashioned?), rules, pace of play, and just having a good time in competition, or not, with others.  Comments?  Or would you say, "That's not really their job"?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 10:43:54 AM by Carl Johnson »

Kalen Braley

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Re: Interview with Erik J. Barzeski
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2020, 08:51:03 PM »
Erik,

I've seen technology used in dubious fashion too, and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one.  About 6 years ago, my clubs were stolen out of my car and my insurance gave me a surprising amount of money to replace them.  So instead of just buying replacements, i had the driver, 3 wood, and irons "fitted".  Safe to say the entire thing was basically a con, as they put me on the machine, used different shafts and club head lofts, etc and talked about how i picked up all this distance (50-60 yards with the driver), and it would be even more on the course as I live in Salt Lake at 4500 feet and the machine was supposedly calibrated to sea level. Safe to say, on the range a week later, it was totally busted.  I maybe picked up 5-6 yards on my longest club....

Perhaps I was naive as I've never done it before or even researched it.  Just figured there would be at lead a tad bit more integrity there.