[Ulrich Mayring]

The good thing about the prices is that none of the locals will work themselves to death over those few visitors. It's probably sustainable with a dozen guests per month.

Ulrich

[Marty Bonnar]

If you really need to indulge your desire for remote Scottish golf, there’s plenty of sensible options.
It’s very hard to beat either The Machrie on Islay:
Or, Shiskine on Arran:

Outstanding, REAL golf experiences at stupidly affordable prices with friendly, local accommodations.
There’s no secret to Scotland. It’s open and available to all, like it always has been.
F.

[Michael Whitaker]

This is terribly incomplete journalism I'm afraid.


They only quoted the most expensive possible options and while a very high end visit, so are many others out there. Start with Tara Iti, then go to Sand Hills, Pebble Beach, Les Bordes and the list goes on and that's for the courses that are even possible to visit.


A night and round at Pebble is very steep then you have to put up with a 5-6 hour round, spend a fortune in the store etc etc. I'd take Ardfin 10 out of 10 times.


I think the nightly rates are closer to 1500 including food and maybe even golf if a small group goes but then we talking about amazing rooms and food and not the Castle (20k) or the 2 bedroom place (5k)


On top of that you are likely to have the course to yourself. Which would be rare at any of the above mentioned places. If you like that sort of thing.


Yes still very high end but not what the writer would have you believe (unless of course I didn't see where the complete information was listed).

You're joking, yes?
How much did you actually pay to play any of the courses you have listed? If you play Ardfin will you share with us what it cost YOU?

[Sean_A]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. This place is a rich man's playground. He is willing to share it, but it is dear. This story has been written many times before. It seems to me that being so remote Ardfin is also easily avoided.

Ciao

[Duncan Cheslett]

And ignored. For me at least, it has no relevance.

[David Davis]

This is terribly incomplete journalism I'm afraid.


They only quoted the most expensive possible options and while a very high end visit, so are many others out there. Start with Tara Iti, then go to Sand Hills, Pebble Beach, Les Bordes and the list goes on and that's for the courses that are even possible to visit.


A night and round at Pebble is very steep then you have to put up with a 5-6 hour round, spend a fortune in the store etc etc. I'd take Ardfin 10 out of 10 times.


I think the nightly rates are closer to 1500 including food and maybe even golf if a small group goes but then we talking about amazing rooms and food and not the Castle (20k) or the 2 bedroom place (5k)


On top of that you are likely to have the course to yourself. Which would be rare at any of the above mentioned places. If you like that sort of thing.


Yes still very high end but not what the writer would have you believe (unless of course I didn't see where the complete information was listed).

You're joking, yes?
How much did you actually pay to play any of the courses you have listed? If you play Ardfin will you share with us what it cost YOU?

Hi Michael,


No, I wasn't joking at all. I don't remember all the details for those rounds, but Pebble was 500 USD at least, then with dinner and lodging I guess around 1300 USD but that was in 2010 and by no means extravagant. I imagine it's slightly more now. Sand Hills bill must of been around 2000 USD by the time I was done but maybe I'm a couple hundred off. Was with a few other guys from GCA. Also probably like 2013. Tara Iti was more recent but also more like 2000 USD I think which included a couple rounds and lodging and caddy.


So just as I said, it's high end but not what I would call outrageous in comparison to other high end offerings.


Marty,


I will respectfully disagree that you can compare either of those courses to Ardfin even though they are fun experiences. Ran, for example, best described The Machrie after our last visit as neutered. I had played it before and that about sums it up. It's a Doak 4 or 3 in my book while Ardfin is a 10 for me. But hey that's just an opinion of course. I would way rather go play Machrihanish and Mach Dunes and even Dunaverty which are all great fun than make a special trip over to play The Machrie. However, if you are in the area and wouldn't want to pay to play Ardfin and especially if you are a whiskey fan then heading over to the Isle in combination with a visit to those mentioned makes for a brilliant trip.

[Eric Smith]

Kalen asks if it is a 10 and David confirms. I’m paying attention.


David,
How would you split 10 rounds at Ardfin and Santapazienza?

[jeffwarne]

David,
This is Scotland, man, where anyone can get a more than decent round of golf on some of the oldest, finest golf courses in the world for thirty or forty quid.
F.
Edit: T-H-E O-L-D C-O-U-R-S-E is £195 High Season this year. The OLD COURSE!

yes but the Golf Digest Outpost Card isn't accepted there....so it actually costs
...195 quid...


There's probably a market for an Ardfin and to each his own..
Played/walked several gems last week and didn't see a soul on any of them. Perhaps the $14 US scared them off.

[Paul Rudovsky]

I played Ardfin (with my bride) in September 2017 in the middle of the 3 week trip playing some 18 different Scottish courses of which six were first time plays for me (Pat was smart enough to mix in other activities aside from golf).  The variety of courses on this journey was astounding, including great great old (and long revered) clubs such as TOC, Muirfield, Prestwick, Dornoch, GE-King's, N Berwick, Gullane #1, as well as some "newer" great well recognized layouts, such as Turnberry (post Trump's brilliant renovation), Castle Stuart, and some possible Hidden Gems that I had never seen....the best of which were two that were unforgettable to me: Brora and Askernish.  Ardfin worked into the trip very well logistically between Prestwick and Askernish (followed by Dornoch).


I was an invited guest (I guess), paying a low night's fee at the hotel next to the distillery and no golfing fees.  The course was essentially finished except for some clean up on some green to tee walks.  Before going there I had heard that there had been ZERO sand on the island of Jura and that sand to cap the entire course was imported from surrounding Islands/areas.  Without naming names we played with  some of the key people from the SOL construction company who built the course. 


First let me say...this is no question the most spectacular site for a golf course I have ever seen or even possibly imagined.  It is breathtaking.  No question in my mind about that statement, but a golf course in much much more than the "view"...or otherwise I might have to place Ardfin second to the view from the top of Mt. Everest or K-2 (have been to neither).   How many hundreds of courses have you seen with better views than TOC??


We played in admittedly horrible weather.  However, I have to say that in all my years playing golf in GB&I (starting in 1970) encompassing  114 courses and probably a total of some 300+ rounds I have never played a more water logged layout than that round at Ardfin.  During the round I inquired regarding the sand capping and was clearly told that the original plan was to sand cap the entire course but then due to strong winds and limited facilities to barge in the sand, it became clear it would be impossible to sand cap the entire course (and if it had been logistically possible, the sand likely would blow away before the plantings/seeding would "take" to hold it down (green and tee areas being much smaller in size could be temporarily protected by barriers).  In fact the tees and greens were in decent shape and not water logged...but the fairways were another story.


Back in 2017 Coffey (owner) had apparently not decided what he wanted to do with the course...he was relatively new to the game.  My impression (I did not meet him) was that the course was to be part of their home here and a place for his friends to visit.  After listening to Bob Harrison's podcast, I have a strong sense that Bob's talk about "World Top 100" may have altered Coffey's plans...which also might have been altered by the actual cost of the project (Coffey's reputed net worth while pretty strong is not in Michael Bloomberg's class and I do not think implies unlimited resources for just this project).  I suspect that Coffey has felt the desire to generate some income from this investment...and that this marketing and availability is necessary for World 100 status.


Note that none of the residential facilities were even close to finished in 2017...but to my mind, that does not matter...I was there to see the golf course not to evaluate its housing.  Analogously, the rooms at Del Monte are frankly nicer that the rooms at Cypress...but how many would choose a room at Del Monte and a round at Pebble for a room and round at CPC.


I very much liked the golf course design with the exception of some long forced carries (due to wetlands) into green settings (particularly the approach to #11) and some long green to tee walks.  I was led to believe Coffey originally planned just one set of tees but by 2017 had been convinced to expand this to three sets totaling 6800, 6445, and 5523 yards.  So now name me your favorite track with no tees between 5525 and 6445 yards.


Regarding Ardfin as a World 100...not on my ballot until it proves it played firm and fast a reasonable % of the time...and the course I played in 2017 was not even close.  Furthermore, I have talked with others who experienced similar soggy fairway conditions since 2017.  Yes, I have have also read and heard others who said it was brilliant and very playable (see some above posts).  And maybe post 2017 sand capping has alleviated what I played through...but until I hear consistent reports of firm fast conditions, I could never put Ardfin in a World 100.


BTW....you can read more about my visit on my blog post: https://rudogolf.blogspot.com/2017/10/return-to-scotland-trip-of-lifetime.html
And if you are trying to set up a game for this summer, I would advise against using moi as a reference...I have heard my post and thoughts were not deeply appreciated.

One final point...if you really are interested in something brilliant and fun...go to Askernish....not to hard to get there and too much fun to adequately describe.  Three thousand cheers for the likes of Colin MacGregor, Gordon Irvine, Martin Ebert, Chris Haspell, Adam Lawrence, Mike Keiser , and Tom Doak for their wonderful efforts.  This is GOLF at its finest IMO.

[Adam Lawrence]

Rudo -- just to confirm re sand capping. It is basically true that there is not a grain of sand on Jura. It is also correct that the original plan was to import sand to cap the course; but this went out of the window when they realised how horrific the logistics would be. All the materials had to come in by ship to the small pier at Craighouse, the village where the Jura Hotel (which is v nice btw) is located, and would then have needed transporting four miles up the single track road to site. Not going to happen, it must have been bad enough getting greens mix in. When I was there, in, I think, October 2016, quite a bit of the course had not been grassed. It was basically shaped up in pulverised rock. Instead of sand capping, they had to scavenge across the rest of the estate (which is enormous, about a third of the island) to find enough topsoil to provide a growing medium. In those circumstances, I am not at all surprised to hear that the course had drainage issues. David's suggestion that it is a Doak 10 is in my view away with the fairies.

[Kalen Braley]

Here it is on Google Maps:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jura/@55.8002093,-6.0280361,2012m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x488a3160f8dbb4eb:0x6149d70c433752f7!8m2!3d55.9041798!4d-5.9414209


P.S.  The nearest major city Glasgow gets 43-45 inches of rain on average, which is more than Seattle.  Combined with the cool year round temps, I'm guessing most days are hit and splat...

[Mark Pearce]

How far from the origins of golf have we come?  This thread is obscene.  Genuinely X rated stuff.  I despair.

[Mark Chaplin]

I cannot afford a Bentley, a gold Rolex or a couple of nights golfing at Ardfin. However I do own a car, a watch and several golf memberships.


I guess the course will have a steady flow of the wealthy and raters.


Ardfin is clearly a high end location but has delivered considerable investment and provides employment for both professional greens staff and islanders. What is there not to like in that.

[Bob Harrison]

Thankfully there has been a big effort to thin the rough, extend turf grass areas selectively, widen the course in places and make it more user-friendly. This will be an ongoing effort.

September '17, when Paul R was there, was at the end of one of the wettest summers on record, and many Scottish courses were closed. Construction at Ardfin was more-or-less finished, but the course had not grown in fully.

Since then there has been a rigorous program of top dressing fairways and additional drainage. Ran and David played there last year after heavy rain and can confirm the playing conditions. This program will also be ongoing. Realistically, it was never going to be sandcapped - too difficult logistically and too expensive - and there was no real need.

Despite the difficult logistics and ground conditions the course and the 9 hole pitch-and-putt together cost a total of about 6.5m pounds to construct. The bigger numbers sometimes floating around apply to the buildings.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I cannot afford a Bentley, a gold Rolex or a couple of nights golfing at Ardfin. However I do own a car, a watch and several golf memberships.


I guess the course will have a steady flow of the wealthy and raters.


Ardfin is clearly a high end location but has delivered considerable investment and provides employment for both professional greens staff and islanders. What is there not to like in that.

Well said.  Doubt I'll ever swing by....move on nothing to see.

[HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry]

We played 4 rounds @ Ardfin this past October. 


It is the most spectacular golf course I've ever played.  It has great design variety, really cool greens, and I love how the routing explores the property.


I did not encounter the conditioning issues Paul describes.


I concur with David, it is a 10 in my book (I've played 92 of the current world 100 list for context), and is in my personal top 5.


I can't wait to go back again next month (and again in October).

[jeffwarne]

Harry,
very interesting.
Given you rate it a "10"
Where would you put it in your world Top 92(that you've playedout of 100)
i.e. how many other 10's(if any) do you have in your Top 92?

[David Jones]

I hope you'll excuse me from posting links to my own blog here but I have written a few thousand words on my trip to Ardfin  -


https://www.ukgolfguy.com/ardfin-golf

I was incredibly impressed with the course. While tough it was more playable than I had feared (the weather was pretty benign) and both the setting and routing were magnificent.

I would understand fully though if you'd prefer a more visual approach! I was able to film the course for a couple of hours and have edited into a video here which I hope does it some justice -


https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/ardfin-golf-from-the-air

[Jeff Schley]

David thanks for putting in the work.  A bit of Kingsbarns and Old Head to me it strikes me and even North Berwick with the stonework. Lovely location and not easy to get to so will be that much more satisfying when I finally get the chance.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Great work David.


I was there the week before you when we were not blessed with such clement weather. I concur with pretty much everything you have written. I'm sure Simon Crawford is glad for some informed feedback on the course, which can only serve to help smooth off the harsher edges.


I hope you get to see my JCB course someday soon and give it the same treatment.

[Niall C]

As a matter of interest, if you were slumming it and wanted to see this course, what's the cheapest it would cost you (assuming you're not a rater) ?


Niall

[Lou_Duran]

A friend of my son who belongs to a few NY clubs and has played all the best here (e.g. Pine Valley, ANGC, Shinny, NGLA, Fishers, Seminole, etc.) says that Ardfin is now at the top of his list.   I'd like to play it some day, but green fees are really getting out of hand- Whistling Straits recently charged a day visitor $535+tax+caddie for a single round, and the tee sheet was full.

[Tony_Muldoon]

As a matter of interest, if you were slumming it and wanted to see this course, what's the cheapest it would cost you (assuming you're not a rater) ?


Niall

without looking it up, an arm and a ........


As both are slightly essential for golf, I find that this is a temptation I can resist, Oscar.


Good luck to those who are more curious than I am.

[Tom_Doak]

There are several people who think it's one of the 25 best courses in the world, including the founder of this site.  But so far the Venn diagram between those guys and guys who have paid to play there appears to be a null set.  Odd!   


Personally, I always get uncomfortable when the praise for any new course just seems too high.  If you tell me a course is great, or top 50, I'm intrigued, but when you tell me it's top five, I start wondering how much the royal treatment affects your judgment.  Call me a doubting Thomas.


There are a few places like this now, where you have to pay so much to be there, that you either have to like it, or shoot yourself afterward for being so foolish.  I have even built one or two such places, but I would never tell anyone they were "top five," even if I thought so!  [I just don't argue when others say it.]  So far, though, I haven't built any that require special dispensation of the owner to play.  I've had some overtures about doing a project like that, but I'm not sure if I will ever agree to do one if I have the chance, unless they offer me the chance to bring unlimited guests. 

[Sean_A]

The number of people who have played Ardfin can't be many. Are we anywhere near having significant subsets of freeloaders and payers to be concerned about a divergence of opinion?

Ciao

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