I haven't started a thread in ages, but...

[Kevin_Reilly]

I watched this promotional video from the European Tour (or more specifically Callaway...they must have paid for it*) and thought that it summed up the difference in golf over the last few decades. 


https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20

*The fact that they used a Callaway persimmon driver proves that they were limited to Callaway products throughout.  There was no Callaway persimmon driver in play at any time, unless Ely somehow had another company's driver branded with the Callaway name for some reason.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Darn, very frustrating after all these years that a basic thread topic has formatting issues like the above.


- old man yelling at clouds.

[Matt_Cohn]

I watched this promotional video from the European Tour (or more specifically Callaway...they must have paid for it*) and thought that it summed up the difference in golf over the last few decades. 


https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20

*The fact that they used a Callaway persimmon driver proves that they were limited to Callaway products throughout.  There was no Callaway persimmon driver in play at any time, unless Ely somehow had another company's driver branded with the Callaway name for some reason.

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20


Nonetheless, I think my takeaway (also from hitting a persimmon last summer) is that it actually required a different swing.

[Paul Rudovsky]

the old clubs also require a totally different golf ball.  so from a scientific standpoint, this "experiment" fails on at least two scores.  I think very hard to create an experiment that is a valid test:


--comparing today's carry and total distances with same data from 1970's (which was not captured back then) would still have the fault as it would assume players of 1970's were equal to today's players in terms of athleticism, size, conditioning;


--using balata golf balls that have been held for 20-40 years doesn't work either as they are years and years past their "shelf life" (even if stored in pristine scientifically controlled conditions...which would be highly doubtful)

[Bryan Izatt]

I watched this promotional video from the European Tour (or more specifically Callaway...they must have paid for it*) and thought that it summed up the difference in golf over the last few decades. 


https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20

*The fact that they used a Callaway persimmon driver proves that they were limited to Callaway products throughout.  There was no Callaway persimmon driver in play at any time, unless Ely somehow had another company's driver branded with the Callaway name for some reason.

Not surprising that these guys couldn't just pick up a steel shafted persimmon driver and instantly hit it well.  I played persimmon and laminate drivers for 30+ years.  It wasn't so hard.  Certainly not as long as today.

Callaway made some persimmon drivers - there are some for sale on e-Bay.  Nice looking club. No idea if any were in play on the tours.

[Thomas Dai]

This from Lucas Herbert with Mike Clayton from last year is worth watching - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMCUplptnCQ
I think there was a GCA thread about it at the time.

Atb

[BHoover]

the old clubs also require a totally different golf ball.  so from a scientific standpoint, this "experiment" fails on at least two scores.  I think very hard to create an experiment that is a valid test:

Your claim that “old clubs” (presumably you mean persimmon woods) somehow require a different ball is false. Maybe for testing purposes I can see your point. But you can very easily play those clubs with the modern golf ball.

[Tom_Doak]

It's interesting that Callaway are the ones putting this out.


It's classic divide and conquer strategy.  Pit those who would reform the ball against those who would reform the driver.  Thrn declare the subject is complicated and people can't agree, so - change nothing.


Are the golf equipment industry and the health insurance industry run by the same corporate overlords, or were they just fraternity brothers?

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,


Agreed on that point.  But the distance problem is still easily fixed with one solution, flight limited balls...and then club manufactures can still make whatever the hell they want.

[Paul Jones]

I like the suggestion to ban teeing up the ball.

[Buck Wolter]

I like the suggestion to ban teeing up the ball.

This!


Or at least limit tee height in professional events. A 2" tee would change things dramatically, force them to hit down on the ball.


Would love to see a 'Masters Tee' rolled out by Fred. Too easy I guess.

[Tom_Doak]

Apart from heads exploding at Callaway, what if they just banned "woods" from professional events altogether, and made the pros play with irons only?

[Thomas Dai]

Agreed on that point. But the distance problem is still easily fixed with one solution, flight limited balls...and then club manufactures can still make whatever the hell they want.

I don’t disagree but three of the bigger club manufacturers are also ball manufacturers.
It’d be interesting to know though what percentage of such companies income and atoi/‘profit’ is derived from ball sales vrs equipment sales.
And with regard to ball sales, there is a position that suggests that ball manufacturers ought to prefer a ball that is more difficult to control. That way more balls ought to be lost and thus more replacement balls ought to be required and thus sales and income should increase.
Strange golfing world though ..... one where folks spend money on equipment/balls that go further and then spend more money on increasing the length of golf courses.
Atb

[Paul Jones]

Apart from heads exploding at Callaway, what if they just banned "woods" from professional events altogether, and made the pros play with irons only?

I think it would be easier to ban/limit tees then clubs. I am guessing the tee manufacturers have fewer lawyers.

[John Kavanaugh]

What if the GCSAA and AGCAA refused to restore and maintain the back tees?  Take away the need for the long ball and the equipment manufacturers will follow. Or to put it more simply, let the people who are crying the loudest about a “problem” fix it.

[Ronald Montesano]

People make this out like it's the fault of equipment folk only.


If elite club members weren't so damned interested in hosting major championships, then the Merions, Winged Foots, et al., wouldn't feel pressure to extend their courses. Let the US Opens and PGA go to courses specifically made for those courses. Didn't the gutty render Prestwick and Musselburgh incapable of hosting the Open? It's been happening since the beginning.


I shut the commercial off after 10 seconds. Thought it was stupid.


How many working golf course architects make a living off restorations and renovations, owed in part to equipment advances?


I don't understand why so many people get wood over wood on this site. If my wife replaces me with a newer, more technologically-advanced model, good on her.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Or at least limit tee height in professional events. A 2" tee would change things dramatically, force them to hit down on the ball.

A bunch of them do. Most guys don't tee the ball up too high because they feel it would get away from them. Titleist could instantly get Bill Haas 20-30 yards but he gets nervous when the ball gets too high in the air.

I shut the commercial off after 10 seconds. Thought it was stupid.

And a horrible "test" from any kind of scientific perspective.

[Kalen Braley]

Before everyone gets thier undies in a bunch, this was never intended to be an actual scientific experiment...its clearly entertainment/advertising more akin to the old school Hammer!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wat0K-3WMqg

[Buck Wolter]

Or at least limit tee height in professional events. A 2" tee would change things dramatically, force them to hit down on the ball.

A bunch of them do. Most guys don't tee the ball up too high because they feel it would get away from them. Titleist could instantly get Bill Haas 20-30 yards but he gets nervous when the ball gets too high in the air.

You made my point -- if everybody hit as far as Bill Haas we wouldn't be having this conversation

[Pat Burke]

I watched this promotional video from the European Tour (or more specifically Callaway...they must have paid for it*) and thought that it summed up the difference in golf over the last few decades. 



https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20

*The fact that they used a Callaway persimmon driver proves that they were limited to Callaway products throughout.  There was no Callaway persimmon driver in play at any time, unless Ely somehow had another company's driver branded with the Callaway name for some reason.

Not surprising that these guys couldn't just pick up a steel shafted persimmon driver and instantly hit it well.  I played persimmon and laminate drivers for 30+ years.  It wasn't so hard.  Certainly not as long as today.

Callaway made some persimmon drivers - there are some for sale on e-Bay.  Nice looking club. No idea if any were in play on the tours.

I played a Callaway wood head a few rounds in 1990 (my rookie season).  Beautiful head and had a really good graphite shaft with a wrap on it that made it look like a wood shaft...Still have the club, it was very good, and pretty cool looking

[Kevin_Reilly]

Interesting to learn that there was a Callaway persimmon driver.  While my golf club (equipment) interest has waned significantly over the last few years, back in the day I kept close watch on the equipment side of the game (understatement). 


Anyway, I am going to bring my Orlimar driver (with Rifle 6.5) the next time I play with Matt Cohn, so we can (unscientifically) see how an excellent player performs with it versus his regular driver.


I'll bump this thread later this year with a report.

[Kevin_Reilly]

The test implement:  https://imgur.com/gallery/hF5qelc?s=sms


I reshafted it from the DGX300 it had when I got it in 1982 (driver fitting by Rick Rhoads at SFGC) to a softer shaft in the 90's. 

[Steve Lang]

miss the crack off cycolac resin face?

[Bryan Izatt]

Hopefully Pat's comments are readable now.

I watched this promotional video from the European Tour (or more specifically Callaway...they must have paid for it*) and thought that it summed up the difference in golf over the last few decades. 



https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1218201311386263552?s=20

*The fact that they used a Callaway persimmon driver proves that they were limited to Callaway products throughout.  There was no Callaway persimmon driver in play at any time, unless Ely somehow had another company's driver branded with the Callaway name for some reason.

Not surprising that these guys couldn't just pick up a steel shafted persimmon driver and instantly hit it well.  I played persimmon and laminate drivers for 30+ years.  It wasn't so hard.  Certainly not as long as today.

Callaway made some persimmon drivers - there are some for sale on e-Bay.  Nice looking club. No idea if any were in play on the tours.

I played a Callaway wood head a few rounds in 1990 (my rookie season).  Beautiful head and had a really good graphite shaft with a wrap on it that made it look like a wood shaft...Still have the club, it was very good, and pretty cool looking

[Matt_Cohn]

I don't understand why so many people get wood over wood on this site. If my wife replaces me with a newer, more technologically-advanced model, good on her.

What if every time your wife upgraded husbands, she had to pay to remodel to her house to accommodate the new, more technologically-advanced occupant? At some point the upgrades would start to seem like not as good of an idea.