[Jeff Schley]

We are talking actual tee box locations, not a hybrid set of rated tees where you use black on this hole and blue on the next for a hybrid rating.
I don't know I have ever played one.  A friend's home course is Ford Plantation which he says has 7, but don't know if that includes hybrids, as I remember him saying casually we have 7 tee boxes.
In Chicago I know Dubsdread has at least 5, but don't think they have 6.
I like the hybrid model of using alternates tee boxes on holes for variety which is more cost friendly then having to maintain a large amount of teeing grounds.

[Mark Chaplin]

Jeff - Nicky my wife walks around 35,000 steps when she hand cuts tees on 9 holes at her club and they only have 3 or 4 tees per hole. Adding more tees would be a significant drain on greenkeeping resources.

[Mark_Fine]

Sebonack for one   The answer is many more than you would think.  Also, does a hole that has two 3,000 sq ft tees count the same as a hole that has six tees that are 1,000 sq ft each?  Theoretically it would take Mark’s wife almost as long to mow those two tees as it would the six.  Isn’t it about tee sq ft on a hole vs the actual number of tee boxes? 

Furthermore, if you have a course than can stretch to 7500 yards, how many “starting points” are appropriate for the variety of golfers who will play there?  Let’s face reality, a 6000 yard golf course probably needs less formal tees than one 25% longer.  The amount of tee sq ft depends on the amount and type of play and on individual holes and their design.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark long tees require less turning so are quicker to mow and there’s less taking wheels on and off and loading the trailer to move to the next tee. Lots of small tees may have the same square footage but would take a lot longer to cut.

[Mark_Fine]

Mark,
I that but you understand where I am coming from.  If there was only one long runway tee that stretched 100 yards long, would you count that as one tee or

The Pete Dye Course at French Lick I believe stretches to over 8100 yards.  I am not sure how many sets of tees he built but I am guessing more than two 

[Sean_A]

Mark,
I that but you understand where I am coming from.  If there was only one long runway tee that stretched 100 yards long, would you count that as one tee or ???The Pete Dye Course at French Lick I believe stretches to over 8100 yards.  I am not sure how many sets of tees he built but I am guessing more than two 

Mark


It doesn't matter how you label it...the issues remain.  Mega tees may seem like it is solving problems. but the concept introduces new problems.


Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
I didn't say I was an advocate of mega tees, I was just making a point about number of tees vs square footage of tees!  If you are advocating that less tees are better I beg to differ.

Tom Doak stated on the other thread about tees:


“ I'm okay with letting them play from wherever they want on a given hole.  I just think if you build a hole where people need five different options, it's a bad hole.”


In some cases what he said might be true but not in all.

Let’s talk about a hole we all know like #13 at Augusta National.  It seems to me that hole was designed to be a risk/reward par five.  To me that means more than just Dustin Johnson would have a chance to think about going for the green in two.  That said, I don’t think it was ever meant to be played as a 3W/wedge like Dustin and many of the pros can play it or a Driver/3W/Hybrid like a super senior might.  While I am not advocating more back tees and buying up real estate like they did at Augusta or also at Merion to add them, I am much more in favor of adding forward starting points for holes as they can only help the game and keep it fun and interesting for a wider variety of players.  Why shouldn’t a super senior still have the thrill of putting for eagle on a “par five” like they used to do when they were younger and stronger?  Do we need to make him or her think the game has passed them by?  Why shouldn’t shorter hitters have the chance to make a hole in one on at least some if not most par threes,…?  Is it really ruining the integrity of the game to provide shorter options (if possible) for a wider variety of golfers so they can experience the original intent of the holes? 

Tom and others (including myself) also mentioned that most play on most courses usually takes place from one particular tee box or starting point!  No problem, we agree, but what is wrong with allowing variety day to day or week to week?  Why does that 445 yard par four always have to play from 445 yards?  Why not one day set the markers at 410 and another day at 365 and another day at 310,…??? I would argue that the best holes play well from many distances, not just well from one or two starting points.  Maybe this group is just hung up on the number of “formal” tees?  The starting point for a hole can be anywhere including two tee markers on the fairway or even in the rough. It is just a place to begin the hole and variety can add lots of interest.  Try playing your home course as 18 par threes (pick whatever yardages you want) and see how much fun and different that can be.  Or just go play those forward tees.  On a well designed course you will experience a whole different set of challenges.

Flynn and many other classic architects understood that the game would change and they tried to design elasticity into their courses so they could be lengthened.  Where I think they missed the mark (or just didn’t think or talk enough about it) is recognizing that the game is hard and most golfers are not very good at it.  Believe it or not, shorter teeing options can help in many ways.  They are not a cure all but the pros outweigh the cons, no pun intended

[Ben Hollerbach]

Bobby Jones, The reversible 9 hole course in Atlanta, has 7 tee's per direction. This could mean for any given hole there are up to 14 unique teeing locations. Now most of these are integrated into a fairway cut and marked with a single numbered disk embedded into the ground so any additional maintenance on these areas is minimal.


The concept behind the large number of teeing areas is to present playing options to all players, from children just starting out to highly accomplished collegiate players. Being that an 18 hole loop on the course on any given day will play the same routing twice, the multiple teeing options also allows for a player to vary their experience over the same 9 holes.


On the whole it is probably entirely overkill to have that many options and I doubt to many players really stray to far away from one set of tees. But since they are rather non intrusively placed around the course they don't detract too much from play, other than the occasional moment where you can't seem to find a particular tee box location.

[V. Kmetz]

Sean,
I didn't say I was an advocate of mega tees, I was just making a point about number of tees vs square footage of tees!  If you are advocating that less tees are better I beg to differ.

Tom Doak stated on the other thread about tees:


“ I'm okay with letting them play from wherever they want on a given hole.  I just think if you build a hole where people need five different options, it's a bad hole.”


In some cases what he said might be true but not in all.

Let’s talk about a hole we all know like #13 at Augusta National.  It seems to me that hole was designed to be a risk/reward par five.  To me that means more than just Dustin Johnson would have a chance to think about going for the green in two.  That said, I don’t think it was ever meant to be played as a 3W/wedge like Dustin and many of the pros can play it or a Driver/3W/Hybrid like a super senior might.  While I am not advocating more back tees and buying up real estate like they did at Augusta or also at Merion to add them, I am much more in favor of adding forward starting points for holes as they can only help the game and keep it fun and interesting for a wider variety of players.  Why shouldn’t a super senior still have the thrill of putting for eagle on a “par five” like they used to do when they were younger and stronger?  Do we need to make him or her think the game has passed them by?  Why shouldn’t shorter hitters have the chance to make a hole in one on at least some if not most par threes,…?  Is it really ruining the integrity of the game to provide shorter options (if possible) for a wider variety of golfers so they can experience the original intent of the holes? 

Tom and others (including myself) also mentioned that most play on most courses usually takes place from one particular tee box or starting point!  No problem, we agree, but what is wrong with allowing variety day to day or week to week?  Why does that 445 yard par four always have to play from 445 yards?  Why not one day set the markers at 410 and another day at 365 and another day at 310,…??? I would argue that the best holes play well from many distances, not just well from one or two starting points.  Maybe this group is just hung up on the number of “formal” tees?  The starting point for a hole can be anywhere including two tee markers on the fairway or even in the rough. It is just a place to begin the hole and variety can add lots of interest.  Try playing your home course as 18 par threes (pick whatever yardages you want) and see how much fun and different that can be.  Or just go play those forward tees.  On a well designed course you will experience a whole different set of challenges.

Flynn and many other classic architects understood that the game would change and they tried to design elasticity into their courses so they could be lengthened.  Where I think they missed the mark (or just didn’t think or talk enough about it) is recognizing that the game is hard and most golfers are not very good at it.  Believe it or not, shorter teeing options can help in many ways.  They are not a cure all but the pros outweigh the cons, no pun intended

Mark F, a excellent post... one of the absolute, unheralded virtues (imo) of the not-in-vogue RTJ style is that, in concert with a predilection for large greens, the course plays refreshingly different day in/day out. On the tee side, this can be represented by not only multiple teeing grounds but by the inclusion of some long, rectangular runway tees (which can be aesthetically pleasing) in certain holes and locations.

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


Sorry for this, but the BJ course tee complex between Mag 1 and Mag 3 greens looks ridiculous.  I lost count.  No course needs more than 4 tee locations per hole whether that is 4 separate tees or 2 tees big enough to handle the play (given the course clientele) with 2 sets of markers. 


Got that off my chest.


Thanks.
Anthony

[Ben Hollerbach]

Ben:


Sorry for this, but the BJ course tee complex between Mag 1 and Mag 3 greens looks ridiculous.  I lost count.  No course needs more than 4 tee locations per hole whether that is 4 separate tees or 2 tees big enough to handle the play (given the course clientele) with 2 sets of markers. 


Got that off my chest.


Thanks.
Anthony

It is a bit ridiculous. Luckily how they are actually placed on the course it is virtually unnoticeable and for the most part unobtrusive. This view is looking back towards the tee on Magnolia 2.

[Jason Topp]

I counted 106 at my course - mowed with a step cut.  The obvious negative is the maintenance.  It also looks silly at certain points.


Nonetheless there are positives.


Part of the reason for all of the boxes is to accommodate high level events - our superintendent's revenge event plays at over 7700 yards.  On many holes, one cannot even see those tees in normal play.  When someone who can handle that length plays the course it is fun to watch - they essentially hit the ball to the same spots I play from 70 yards ahead. 


At the same time, many forward tees have been added over the years - making the experience more friendly for beginners and providing a fun alternative for emergency 9's.


Some of the added tee boxes really add to the fun - different angles off the tee have a surprising effect on how a hole plays and it is nice to spice things up at times.  Our 18th hole (a par 5) is a very good par 4 from the front tees.  Some of the 400 yard par fours make interesting driveable holes from the forward tees.  You can play each par 5 as a very long hole or as one where you are trying to reach in two. 


The course is routed so that the natural walking path takes you to the 6700 yard tees most of the time so the flow from a walking perspective is not really a problem.     


It might not be my choice from a purist perspective but I am not one to let purity interfere with fun.



https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/windsongfarmgc/holemap.htm?next=overview.htm#

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben/Jason:


For accuracy sake I should mention that my club (with the 4 sets of tees) does have a medallion in a selected spot at 150 yards to the green for juniors and beginners.  Or just tired old guys.


Anthony

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