Modern Green Speeds and Kikuyu

[Adam G]

I'm fairly new around here. Hello!


I grew up playing a course in Southern California with kikuyu grass in the fairways, rough, and green approaches. I moved away over 10 years ago and had not played a kikuyu course until recently, when I played a club that had recently done a major redo of greens and bunkers, tree removal, tee boxes, etc. but they left the kikuyu in.


What struck me was just how incompatible modern green speeds are with kikuyu in the green surrounds. These were very fast, slopey greens, and they basically forced a flop shot around the greens. If you landed it short of the green, the kikuyu grabbed it. If you landed it on the green you could hardly stop the ball, particularly from above the hole and even if you brought it in high and soft. As someone who now plays on a firm and fast course (fescue on a sand base) that requires lots of different shots and imagination around the greens, I quickly noticed how many of the interesting shot options around the greens were totally removed by combination of kikuyu approaches and fast greens. Not to mention that it makes the course much harder for mid to high handicappers and easier for the better player. It also made me reflect on my own development as a golfer: Because I played on kikuyu for so long, I never had an appreciation for the ground game or learned those shots until I left a kikuyu-based course.


I've been wondering what courses can do to handle the combination of kikuyu approaches and fast greens? Is there any way to design around these issues? Part of me wonders why they did not re-grass just the immediate green surrounds with something else when they redid the greens and bunkers (I know how hard it is to fight kikuyu but otherwise I am a bit ignorant on turf matters). I guess the other approach would be to slow down the greens a bit, but still landing it short would not be an option.

[Jason Topp]

Welcome Adam! 


My feeling is that courses should reflect their location and if Kikuyu naturally dominates, a course should work with nature rather than fight it.  Greens can then be designed that assume short game shots will have to be lofted onto the putting surface.  Bigger greens might provide the player with more options with respect to loft.


For an existing course, slower greens might be a better approach than sandcapping the underlying soil, replacing the grass and then fighting to keep Kikuyu from invading the regrassed greens.

[Alex Miller]

Welcome Adam!

I believe Todd Eckenrode is on here and can speak to this more than I can, but part of the work he did at Palos Verdes CC was replacing greenside fairway kikuyu with bermuda(?). I think it's held up pretty well over the last 5+ years and they were able to figure out a way to maintain the bermuda and keep the kikuyu out. It's allowed for more variety in the greenside shots and approaches as you mention, but I'm not sure why it isn't doable elsewhere.


On the flipside, I believe Santa Ana CC has embraced kikuyu and gone wall to wall with it. They have some of the faster and firmer kikuyu I've seen and although the aerial approach is preferred, it does allow for some options for those that prefer it.


Also, I'll add that I do think kikuyu does offer some room for creativity having grown up playing on it myself. It's just very finicky and takes time to learn - probably a level of expertise most will not acquire as it takes a long time to get confident playing shots on the ground with kikuyu. There are different kinds of bounces and rolls to get to know, and while it is less consistent than other grass types I think anyone who has played links golf can tell you that there is inherently unpredictability in the ground game.

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:


I agree with your description and it's one reason I've never liked kikuyu much.


For our renvoation of Concord GC in Australia, which is kikuyu like many of the courses around Sydney, we installed bermuda in the approaches and chipping areas around the green to allow for ground game options.  It's a very different course because of that, and most of the members are enjoying the variety of shots around the greens.




Jason:


I agree with your premise that courses should be designed based on their surrounds.  One of things I most admired about Himalayan GC was how they designed everything around slow conditions, instead of fast and firm, because it's the only reasonable maintenance approach for their situation.


But, Himalayan GC doesn't have to worry about what the course across the street is doing.  In Southern California, slow greens are going to be panned by most golfers, and business will suffer.

[Pete Lavallee]

Torrey Pines is predominately Kikuyu and in the original 2001 redesign they hydro seeded rye grass in the approaches. In the recent 2019 redesign they sodded with Bermuda which seems to work a lot better. It’s interesting to note that the USGA stated they would not take the US Open to a course with [size=78%]Kikuyu approaches as an out of position player would have little options. [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Is Riviera the only great course to still maintain Kikuyu approaches? Will they need to change that to be considered for a US Open?[/size]

[Adam G]

Bermuda approaches make sense. Given that this has been successful other places, why would a club doing a multi-million dollar renovation (where they put in what appeared to an untrained eye to be bermuda tees) not do bermuda approaches at this point? Is it costly? Or would it force the course to close for longer during a renovation? It seemed to me to be a missed opportunity not to re-grass the approaches if you were closing the course -- obviously now that the painful renovation has been done the membership won't want to close the course to replace the green surroundings any time soon.

[David_Elvins]

Adam,


Bermuda approaches can look really bad If not done well.  And they are not always a significant improvement on kikuyu. 


The Lakes in Sydney had Bermuda approaches at one stage and got rid of them.  Instead they have managed the kikuyu with water and chemicals so it plays pretty similar to Bermuda. 

[Scott Champion]

Adam,


Bermuda approaches can look really bad If not done well.  And they are not always a significant improvement on kikuyu. 


The Lakes in Sydney had Bermuda approaches at one stage and got rid of them.  Instead they have managed the kikuyu with water and chemicals so it plays pretty similar to Bermuda.

Agree with David’s comments above.


Kikuyu is not the same problem it has been in the past, and plenty of clubs manage it tight and firm enough to still allow running shots to varying degrees. 


While I understand the premise behind couch surrounds within a kikuyu course, they need to be done on a large scale to avoid appearing unnatural and visually ‘messy’. Add bent greens and zoysia bunker edges and suddenly you could end up with 4 different grasses within a space of 20 metres.


This also adds to the maintenance to ensure they don’t encroach into each other which is bound to happen when the rest of the course is kikuyu.

[Kalen Braley]

So is bermuda the best strain at keeping the kijuyu at bay?


P.S. I must admit, i played a few so cal courses where it was in the process of taking over and it led to some real shyte golf when playing the course for the first time and not knowing where it was...

[jeffwarne]

Yet no one addresses the 800 pound gorilla initially mentioned by Adam.(green speeds)
Amazing how turf "advances" create such perplexing and potentially expensive "problems".....
all to compete with the club across the street...
 



I'm at Bandon at the moment-fascinating to see 99% of the players using the psychologically acceptable"not quite back"(one set up) tees,(which on the card are 6100 yards, but in reality are placed at about 5800)
100+ yard wide corridors
WALKING ONLY


30 years ago NO developer would've dared to present such a formula, sticking instead to the tired mantra of bulheaded water hazards, high grass(see Kapalua), and narrow corridors
January is sold out at Bandon......


Sometimes going against the "accepted" fads/trends works out spectacularly